He's had a couple of serious injuries that has kept him out for lengthy periods.

And Wakefield? Wigan have to accept that they are now in the same category as the likes of Celtic and Salford, they have no god given right to win games, and have no easy games to throw in players who aren't ready for Super League. Games like Cas at home (and Wakey) will increasingly be real battles for Wigan, and they can't afford to keep dropping points against the other lesser sides. Wigan are a long way behind Saints and Leeds, and a fair distance behind the likes of Hull, Warrington, Cats, Huddersfield and Bradford.

0/10

Would this be the same Saints that lost at HKR, Casleford and Huddersfield last season, then scraped home with a late penalty v Wakefield.

Lets see how things are going mid season before making stupid assessments.

Loan wouldn't be a bad idea but is very unlikely to happen as someone mentioned IL said no-one would be going out on loan.

I am a firm believer of 'If your good enough, your old enough' and with the license system now is as good a time as there will ever be to give the lads a chance as there is nothing to lose. Ainscough has been praised by the aussies (which doesn't happen often so we know we have a talent) and even Stevie Wonder could see Sam's got talent

well... if you're offering

If it was down to me mate...

Anyone tell me why we've got Karl Pryce? I mean, what can he actually faffing do?? He looks too soft, slow, no skill... Why sign him?

Exactly, and seeing how far we are ahead of you men, and think how much you struggled against them. It shows that there are no easy games at all for you nowadays.



Though I have to say that the attempt at trolling by SomersetSaints was very poor, even I'd give him 0/10.

Sam Tomkins is 20 this year. If he isn't ready to play by now he never will be. Other clubs play players younger than this regularly and successfully.

If Noble does not think they are ready then why are they on our books at all? The Cas game won't be an easy game but which ones are?

I don't think Sam Tomkins will be Wigan's saviour but I do think we might play better with Smith at 7 and him at 6 with TL hooking with either Riddell or McIllorum. I'd like to see it tried by our esteemed coach because I don't think he knows what his best formation is.

He played him once last season and along with Ainscough let the games against weaker teams go by without giving them a run out. He looks to be doing it again and only including Ainscough in the 19 because of injuries.

This is not the way to develop these players or retain them at the club and is one of Noble's biggest failings IMO.

Dave

Just like he did with Joel - he prob would be out at the end of this year if we hadnt had the injurys last year. It seems like he is afraid to take the risk - you would have thought he would have learnt with Joel that it is worth the risk. I just dont understand

I really can’t see what Noble can offer us anymore. I really think he’s taken us as far as he can.

Say what you want about finishing third two seasons on a row I really don’t think we’ve progressed as much as some Noble lovers say we have.

We are 2 inconsistent during the season and play an error strewn brand of boring rugby which has zero plan b when one is needed. We aren’t the fittest team in the league and have a 2nd rate backroom staff imo.

Our juniors don’t seem to progress at the levels other teams youngsters do even tho our junior teams seem to be a cut above the rest of the leagues bar Saints and Leeds?

Noble has to take the blame for all these IMO and it’s time for us and Noble to move on to new things.

Our U18's got beat in the Grand Final last year by Saints.
Our reserves beat Saints convincingly in the Grand Final last year.

Leeds U18's didn't even make the playoffs.
I think Leeds reserves went out in the first round to Huddersfield.

Wigan had seven ex. academy players in the 17 last Friday Saints had six.

I'm hoping there will be eight in Wigan 17 on Friday.

I fully agree with this, after watching them last season; if we lose them, they surely will come back and run rings around us with the right club.

From a cas fans point of view i hope noble sticks with the older so called trusted players cos to them its just another game against a lower club and thats were i feel you fall down.
The thoughts of a couple of very talented local youngsters who would see playing cas as a great challenge worries me more.
We may well get beaten tonight but the likes of westerman and owen will be out on the field proving age is no barrier if you have talent.

I wonder what Goulding/McCollorum/Tomkins/O'Carroll & Ainscough will be thinking then?

My point was the names you mentioned and others dont seem to get as much of a look in when everyone is fit.
It wasnt meant to be a dig saying we are better cos we have our own over paid past it imports
it was just an observation that your coach favours the tried and trusted approach.

you still managed to squeeze 9 foreigners in there thought too

No they don't do they! They only have (Ainscough apart but I could have mentioned Prescott/Hansen in his place) 40/50 and in Goulding/Tomkins & O'Carroll instance Nearly double that, 1st team appearances by the time their 21




Now we can go back over the last 5/6/7 years and look at the likes of O'Loughlin/Aspinwall/Wild/Briscoe/Robinson/Hodgson/Brown/Beswick/M.Smith/P Johnson/Hock And many more who all had 50+ appearances by the time they were 21ish under their belts.

Now I Thank You for admitting that your own club has it's overpaid imports and i wish others would follow your lead, However, The continual MYTH that our youngsters don't get opportunities isnt as simple as it seems.

The trouble with a club like Wigan is the expectation level, Nearly all of the above have been given the opportunities but unfortunately, most of them werent up to it.
Some may disagree with that but at the time hardly anyone would have disagreed with the release of most of the those that went (If they are honest and don't speak with hindsight etc) and the reason they went is that they couldn't make it to the Top Level.
This is where I then go on stony ground becauise at some clubs that expectancy level isnt there and the kids can come in, play games with little or no pressure or expectation level, and if the club comes bottom 2 or 3 no-one blames the kids or expects anymore from them.
At Wigan it is totally different!
Most, and I include myself, have or will be Hyper critical of EVERY player at Wigan due to the expectation level of the club and it's fans.
2nd (and the last 2xyears have almost proved this) or 3rd will not do and the continual change within the club to achieve Short term goals sometimes hinders Youth development and/or means players are released slightly early to achieve this.
Couple that with the sheer quantity of Youth that comes through the Wigan ranks and it's no wonder that this Myth Perpetuates!

Where Wigan have failed IMHO is picking up quality English players from other clubs and that is where the Imports have taken over Wigan.
Since 95/96 at the end of Robinsons Tenure there were many quality players on the market that went on to form the backbone of other clubs or were the icing on the cake for other clubs such as Harris/Sculthorpes/Newlove/Senior/Ellis of this world etc

Other clubs such as Saints have produced very little Youth (Again despite the Myth that surrounds them that says they do) over the last 7/8 years yet they have been successful in attracting other clubs players/Youth to their club and fitting them into a side that has had a Constant backbone through it for the last 10 seasons.

When Wigan had that Backbone (Faz,Rads,O'Connor/Cassidy/Connolly etc) Saints couldnt win a game against us for 3 years or so and these players were supplemented by the Wild's/Robinsons/Hodgson/Asoinwall's/Brown etc

When the backbone left, they couldnt step up.

Good post.

However it won't make a bit of difference to the intellectually challenged who like to jump on a bandwagon regardless of the truth.

In my opinion something is inatley wrong with Wigans ability to develop top quality players and you highlighting these results is a great example of it.

Wigan have always had very strong youth teams, they are always there or there abouts when it comes to the silverware, but this does not follow with returns of top quality players at first team level. We seem to generate a quantity of players capable of playing first team, but very very few in recent years bring with them the quality and pedegree we see from them in Junior rugby.


I await someone to mention the John Monie quote, but i think it is somewhat dated now and even if it were relivant we simply do not see 2 quality players produced every year, infact we rarely see 1.

The quality in the junior ranks is scary, but it rarely kicks on to make its potential in my opinion.

The Academy/Reserves for me is not about winning every game or winning silverware at the end of the season, truth be told i could not care less, in real terms it means sod all, the junior set up is about producing top quality players that can help the club at first team level succeed.

Given the talent pool at our dispolsal i think the returns are not acceptable, we continue to hear of this great talent for the future but it rarely comes to fruition which is a concern. Hopefully the accelerated development programme will help this, but i think it is more to do with a culture at the club which will take more than this programme to change.