I actually think he will go ok in the NRL. I think it has always been on his agenda and he put a marker down for England in the tests.

He has the potential to be a very good player and he has shown it in glimpses I feel the NRL will see him realise his potential and whilst I don't think he will become a superstar over there I feel he will make a career for himself in first grade.

This is one of my worries. He's made it pretty clear for a while that he's wanted to leave Wigan, and that his loyalty was basically for sale. He's a pro, so I suppose fair enough ... but at times it was difficult getting him to concentrate on the game while he was still fully contracted to us. So how he's going to do an efficient job now he's going somewhere else, I don't know. But if he won't put his body on the line - a la Carney in his final season - I can't see Wane selecting him.

How can you know this? I remember people saying the same early last season about Joe Burgess, when he promptly started tearing it up. Players' form go up and down, especially young ones, I don't think it should be assumed that it's due to lack of concentration. Apologies if you have inside knowledge.

I suppose it's a perception rather than inside knowledge. Passing to no-one in front of the opposition's line, missing glaring overlap opportunities, sidestepping into tackles rather than around them, kicking at the wrong moment ... maybe as Dave O said, he simply lacks vision. But it's something of a problem for a so-called international.

Either way, the net result is the same - we've simply not had our money's worth from Dan Sarginson, unlike Budgie, who messed up a couple of times but also left us with many glorious tries to remember him by. Sarge may well improve in Aus, but that's no consolation to us. And I'm still amazed that any NRL team has taken a chance on him. I really can't imagine what they think they're getting.

I think he has performed well beyond expectations given that he was a relative unknown when we signed him, he was playing for London and only brought in as a squad player. To go on to not only nail down a centre spot at Wigan, but to also play for England and put in a really good performance against the aussies is well beyond what I thought we would get out of him, all the more impressive when you consider he's only a year older than Tierney.

I agree he lacks vision and is now behind Gildart and Gelling in the pecking order though, so not sure what we would have done with him once Sam Tomkins returns. He's too good to be a squad player IMO, and if he develops that vision he could be a great player. Hopefully around the time he gets homesick!

I see Sarg's logic, which also reflects realistically on Wigan and the SL.

He's ambitious and hierarchy seems to be union and the NRL over SL. Wigan for that seems to be the number 1 window in SL to expose your ability to the waiting world. There seems to be an ambition to play in Union (for the exposure/fame/better pay) and NRL for lifestyle and recognition of playing in the best league.

How many union or NRL players will aspire to play SL? The flow is terribly against SL, and sadly Wigan. While it might be an ambition for us Wiganers to play out our days in cherry and white, it seems more of an opportunity to market yourself looking for bigger better deals.

Sara said he was in discussion with Union teams until the Sam Burgess back and forth, I don't believe he ever had ambitions to be a Wigan player primarily, just to use Wigan as the platform/stepping stone.

Sadly now the we are also seeing Wiganers/Wigan academy do the same (Tomkins x2, Joe Burgess, Charnley etc) who are looking elsewhere. Unlike the returning few I can't ever see Sarg back at Wigan, unless he can't get a Premiership Union club, even if he fails in the NRL.

SL seem resigned to this. It's the current state of play in SL, and I can't see it getting better any time soon.

You can't tell. We've seen players who were regarded as far from superstars in SL go to the NRL and do very well. Hodgson is the obvious example, but you could include Cooper, LeStrange, Soliola, etc.

The problem now is that average SL players are being lured over there to make up the numbers. I refuse to believe that Gold Coast saw anything in Sarge other than - maybe - some raw potential. They surely cannot seriously believe that he's going to add anything to their fist team. Budgie is no longer at Wigan seemingly so that he can play in the Roosters Reserves.

When it was major British stars you could understand it, even if you couldn't stomach it. But this is getting ridiculous. It shows how much our game is currently worth in the eyes of the players and their agents.

Well said.

I don't recall many people predicting that Cooper would have been such a success in the NRL but St.George obviously had a different view and saw something that many people didn't.

In fact when Wigan signed Sarginson (and Clubb) I seem to remember many people expressing that they were underwhelmed by both signings yet both have done pretty well.

Clubb has Sarge hasn't. And just because Cooper has done well in the NRL doesn't mean Sarge will or you can just say we don't have a clue. We [ishould[/i have a clue because of how he has played here. It's not a game of logic but a matter of having a bit of an informed opinion. Based on his obvious faults as outlined by Cruncher it would be a great surprise if he made a go of it and the fact an unfashionable player like Copper has done, has no bearing on Sarge's future in the NRL at all.

Someone else said Sarge has exceeded expectations well all I can say to that is those expectations must have been very low and given his standard of play is what it is, it still isn't good enough.

Styles make fights and some players are suited to the demands of the NRL more than others.

I understand Sarg is the fittest lad in the team so that suits the move also he is a good defender and fairly tough again ticks in the NRL box. The NRL outside backs tend to be more athletes as oppose to traditional rugby players. James Roberts is seen at the shooting star over there and he is basically a winger playing in the centre.

Toughness, athleticism and fitness tends to see you right in the NRL and whilst I am not his biggest fan I think he will do ok in Australia.

I'm surprised at how much stick sarge is getting here.

He's still a young kid who's learning the game .

His main fault is not being a natural passer of the ball, and he's hardly unique in that.

What he does offer is 100% effort, great footwork, great go forward and I thought he'd done a pretty damn good job at full back. For all those who give home grief about that awful pass, and that ball he dropped when he slipped seem to forget that awesome cut out pass the following game.

I find some fans ability to hound a certain player pretty embarrassing and really shows up the quality of some of our fan base.

Nice one Steve

I've always said that if he was born and bred in Wigan he wouldn't have half as many critics as he does.

Gutted he's leaving more than I am about Charnley. He was shortlisted for young player of the year 18 months ago and not long after was Man of the Match on his England debut against an Australian team we pushed right to the end.

Amazing achievements considering he grew up in an area were rugby league wasnt even heard of and he only started playing in his teens.

Compare this to Lewis Tierney who has been playing since he was a youngster and whose father was one of the best rugby players of his generation. Tierney would have had all this coaching and extra help (as well as growing up in a more privileged family) and had several years head start with the game yet he's been outshone by Sarginson ever since the former London Broncos player joined the club.

Most of these southerners are 'late bloomers' as well with game development. Sarginson's potential is huge. Sean Wane could see this. Kris Radlinski could see this. Ian Lenagen could see this. Steve Mcnamara and England RL could see this. Gold Coast Titans and Melbourne Storm could see this as well.

He will be missed.

As for his passing game, well, the Blues' star player has only learnt to pass in the last couple of seasons. I used to watch him carefully play for the Dragons, and he could easily go a whole game without throwing a single pass. I'm speaking of Josh Dugan of course.

I must be missing something which Sarginson has done wrong. I'd have had him as one of our better players in 2014 and he's been one of our best 3 or 4 players this year. He had a write off of a 2015.

A lad who can play 1-7 to a good standard will always be a loss.

I would also say that since signing for Wigan he has indeed exceeded expectations generally at Wigan.

Joe Burgess is your ideal replacement. I don't think he is getting a game at the minute. Trent Robinson has stated that he needs some time in the reserves to get up to speed with defending in the NRL. To go from playing every week at your hometown club to being at the other side of the world in the reserves and perhaps not getting the game time you would like is the perfect recipe for homesickness. It is in the nicest possible way I am saying this of course. I like Joe Burgess and do think he will in time rip it up in the NRL. However he would be my first go to.

Tom Johnstone looks such a talent at Wakey. The most promising aspect is there will definitely be room for improvement. I think the only question mark is do we bring in yet another young player to an already young squad. I suppose Joe Burgess would be young but we know he is better than Josh Charnley. Tom Johnstone would still have to continue to improve.

Justin Carney I just can't decide on. Clearly he can be absolutely devastating and I remember him destroying Josh Charnley while at Castleford. He is a maverick and a really exciting player, but is he another Gareth Hock? Defensively and his poor discipline are a concern. Will it be enough to put Wigan off? If we don't get Burgess or Johnstone I think we will move for him.

--------------------------------

Now replacing Sarginson is another matter. Oliver Gildart is clearly a ready made centre replacement and I have no qualms about him starting at centre next season. In fact he will probably hold the position down himself this year if he continue his current form and rate of development. My concern if we go down this route, is the impact it will have on our squad depth. What happens when Gelling and Gildart get injured? Do we have another centre coming through? Sadly I think we are resigned to losing a bit of squad depth until someone else comes through. I have heard Ratchford mentioned on the rumour mill - would he be happy as a squad player?

Well, he's always been a squad player at Wire...

I questioned a centre backup on the rumours thread before the Sarge announcement. I guess the backups would be Joel and then Isa and then Bateman.

Ratchford for me is a bit of a jack of all trades, he is decent enough at most roles but doesn't excel at any.

And as usual I agree with NK! Sarge has been one of our best players in the last couple of years and deservedly got an England call-up. Anyone saying he didn't "live up to expectations" is ridiculous as we didn't have massive expectations of him anyway.

Why is it only us that constantly lose players to both the NRL & RU, yes other teams lose the odd player now and again but for us it's an annoying trend.

Serves you right for having so many good players!

In my opinion Wigan is now run as a business , you have got to balance the books by keeping a tight control on expenditure and income.

The days of Wigan speculating to accumulate are a thing of the past.

We lose more players then everyone else for two reasons IMO-

1-We're run as a business and Lenagan has a philosophy of allowing players to spread their wings with the hope that they'll come back at some point. It makes the club money and they seem to keep strong relationships with players who leave.

2-We're a victim of our success from the late 80's and early 90's. It made people sit up and take notice and you can reel off umpteen ex players who now coach in Union. We're the most famous team in Oz also and the fact that we seem to actively leave ourselves open to players being picked off makes us a logical target.

I think you can add to that, we are coached and play the game in a style which is similar to the NRL therefore it could be considered that our players will adapt more easily.