The he learns next time to wrap up the player rather than sliding his arm in.

If its Sinfield doing it to Sam, you'd want Sinfield to be tied up between the goal posts and stoned. Because its the other way, you see no wrong.

Neither is tackling a player without the ball if you're committed but Donald was penalized for just that.

That's what I don't get.

We all know he does it, so who would be stupid enough to give him the chance to milk it?

It's not a tactic I like at all as it's sneaky, but defenders aren't making it easy for themselves by persisting in putting their arms there.

If these are the rules and every player does it then we will lose rugby as a game worth watching.

Rubbish. It's being going on since RL began.

It's a clever tactic to win a penalty. It might be annoying, but it's effective.

If it was anyone else doing it no-one would care, but because it's a Tomkins lad, it's a cardinal sin.

No because most players learn to just wrap their arms around the players arms to stop the offload.

Nice supposition, would you care to make any more sweeping generalisations while you're here?

Riiiiiiight.....are you just going to list every other offence in a desperate comparison in an attempt to validate your incorrect views?

We're talking about clamping. It's been made clear there's nothing in the Laws to say what Sam did tonight is illegal. Yet you're still moaning.

ERRR yes ok.

Well how come it's how most players currently tackle?

At the end of the day you can disagree with it all you want, the fact remains that it's not currently something that constitutes a penalty, and has been spoken on by a SL ref during a game. If you'd like it done away with, please petition red hall.

Incorrect views....... I'm sure there's an oxymoron in there. /INB4 Moron reply.

First, stop saying this. It's ing ridiculous. High Tackles have been happening since time began, and they happen all over the amateur game. It doesn't make them a legitimate tactic.



This is the absolute reverse of what's happening and you can't see it. Because it's a wigan player, it's okay to cheat, but if it was the opposition, or you were a neutral, you'd see it for what it obviously is. Gamesmanship.

Players HAVE to put their hand in, to wrap the ball up. You hear it every day on the terrace. Man on ball. Because if you don't wrap the ball up, you haven't made the tackle properly and its liable to get thrown out. Tomkins exploits this by pretending this is an attempt to strip the ball, and in some cases, he and others hold players on top of them in an attempt to con the referee to suggest they are the ones being held down. It is all a con and it doesn't matter who is doing it, it needs stopping because I absolutely hate the injustice of the wrong team being penalised. I was rooting for wigan tonight all the way through, but that didn't stop me from seeing what was going on there.

People are not biased against Tomkins, you are biased for Wigan. He isn't the only player who does it, but then, Ryan Bailley isn't the only player who cheap shots, it doesn't mean he can be excused just because others might do it, especially when he is one of the masters of the art just like Tomkins is of gamesmanship.

What Sam did is no worse in my opinion than what players do week in and week out. Which is as their getting up they flop back down as if someone pushed them half way up. Time after time you see players conning penalties out of referees using this tactic. This is in fact worse than what Sam did, because there is actual interference albeit intentional or otherwise. Doesnt make either tactics right in the spirit of the game but its nothing new

You really need to get a grip.

It's perfectly possible, and preferable to wrap your arms =#FF0040around the ball and ball carrying arm rather than =#FF0040underneath or =#FF0040inside the ball carrying arm, =#FF0000if you're trying to prevent the offload. I used to do it, most of the players on the pitch every week do it in every tackle. The primary reason for putting your arm =#FF0040in there rather than =#FF0000over there is to try and dislodge the ball, not prevent an offload - dislodging the ball in a non one on one situation is illegal, so I wouldn't lose any sleep at all over it happening to one of our players either (who'll you'll note mostly wrap their arms =#FF0040over the ball carrying arm).

If you don't like it write to Stuart Cummings and the RFL, start a petition, run for parliament, I don't care really.

It is gamesmanship, like a lot of aspects of the game, just like trying to dislodge the ball is, or ensuring that your arm slides up into the face on most tackles (which some teams and players are absolute masters of). If we want to eliminate things like this, then at least lets be open and fair and look to eliminate =#FF0040ALL of it

You've got to ask yourself why haven't the referees penalised this? Why has a SL ref come out and told a player it's his problem if his arm is in there? Because they realise that it's happening largely to players who are in the process of attempting their own piece of gamesmanship

There is a crucial difference between what Sam Tomkins is doing and the phantom flop, which I agree is also infuriating and cheating especially when a ref is gullible to fall for it.

However, when the ball is "spilled" because the player has let it go when it was wrapped up like Tomkins has been doing, he forces the referee to make a difficult decision. The ball has been dropped. It's either a knock on, or a penalty. The game is stopped, and the referee has to make a decision there and then. In the phantom flop, the game can continue unless the referee decides he definitely sees something. (Which doesnt always happen, but nevertheless, its a key difference).

You admit it's gamesmanship, which is play acting and cheating, but tell me *I* need to get a grip?

The whole tone of your post, especially the bit about writing to parliament, smacks of you being extremely irritated by all this. Calm down. This is a discussion on a messageboard. And you've admitted its play acting which is essentially what everyone else has been saying.

I don't particularly care why a referee has come out and said that. They're not always right, and what he said does not make any sense if a players arm is being held against his will. I suspect it is so difficult to police that it is an easy excuse for any referee conned by this or unable to make a decision. Nothing any referee has said on the subject negates the fact that there is a substantial issue over this, it is certainly an area that needs tidying up.

Change the condascending tone of your own posts pal and you may get a better reaction. This is a Wigan board remember.

Players have to put their arm around the ball to wrap it up, not under the arm. Under the arm is a blatent effort to dislodge the ball, by making the carry more 'loose'.

Still, this does not give Sam the right to clamp the arm. However I feel that it's only being made such a big thing because Sky are making a thing of it.

Lots of things like this go on in games and go on unoticed, for a good few years Matt Diskin tries to trip up markers as he plays the ball for example.

Ultimately players will try things like this more and more once they know they can get away with it. Last night the ref lost control in the first ten minutes and all hell broke loose. Sam's a clever lad and until a ref teaches him not to do it, he'll continue to do it.

It's only being made a big deal of because Sam did it. Just like Mcguire pulling Carmont back. If Hall had done it there wouldn't be such a fuss from Wigan fans.

I do remember Senior clamping Lockers arm under the ball in the CC semi. They both stood up and Lockers couldn't get his arm out without dislodging the ball. Result? penalty to Leeds.

i think sam is guilty of doing it but also players fearing he will do it are just lying there with there arms up looking at the ref which is what sinfield did he made NO attempt to clear the play the ball.

i agreee with both sides of this its clever play by sam but also annoying to watch and i fear that refs will start ignoring it and the time its a genuine case of lazy defending we wont get the pen id rather see him get up and try for a quick PTB

There is no question its sly tactics and as long as refs allow it fair play to any that get away with it, however there are some seriously one eyed fans on here mainly of cherry and white persuasion (understandably on a Wigan forum) but some others equally so, would Saints fans complain if they won the GF from a penalty won by Roby perhaps? Or in reverse Wigan fans would blow their top if they lost a Grand Final on a penalty against Sam having his arm trapped...

What Sam is doing is crafty gamesmanship which could and maybe should be penalised on the precedent that, even if it is the tacklers responsibility to regain their feet, if a tackled player holds on to the tacklers shirt to stop them regaining their feet it is frequently & correctly given as a penalty and I don't really see any difference when any player is blatantly holding the arm of the tackler.

As for last night I think the first one should have been given to Leeds but I also think that Sinfield after getting his arm caught tried to milk it, the problem comes when the refs are inconsistent (surprise surprise) like the Senior incident penalised Wigan when the ball came out but at the DW Coley did it to Dixon and Wigan got a Wigan scrum - the fact they don't know what the ref is going to give is going to make players think twice about trying to get free. With the Sky Highlighting of the incident we may get clarification as to the ruling that should be followed which can stop endless debates on the subjects, while they are letting it go I think we'll see more players doing it.

Chris Joynt voluntary tackle

no different to any other player holding the tacklers shirt to get the penalty , get a grip

sam is fast becoming the number one villan for opposition fans , this says something , the oposition fear him

It's the RL equivalent of diving, Tomkins did it a few times against us. Doesn't need to add it to his game, he's an awesome talent and thing's like this let him down.