Presumably, you heard the rumour from them? Just asking like.

Any chance you could please quote any evidence of bullying from posters on this thread as I've read through it all and failed to find any?

Thanks

To be honest, no-one is going to, because the rumours I've heard are extremely libelous. I'd be wary even of sending them in a pm, as that may still be classified as publishing them.

Last Son and Vectra have been challenged because both came on here professing to know what has gone on but refusing to say what or in any way give out any information - is it any wonder that they were not taken wholly seriously by some posters? It is sadly far too often that people come on here (just read the rumours thread for some classic examples) and say that know/have been told something but which later turns out to be inaccurate - so anyone saying they know about the Hock situation without giving any information is leaving themselves open to challenge.

As someone monitoring this thread with some interest I am still pretty much in the dark as to what has / has not / maybe has/ could have gone on (possibly not living in Wigan any more leaves me out of some of the more local rumours). Although some of the assertions do appear to be stretching credibility somewhat.

Until someone comes out with something concrete and more importantly verifiable I am going to take the clubs statement at face value and anything else as heresay until proven otherwise.

So they are too scared to tell IL, but not too scared to tell you?

Im sorry but I find that hard to fathom. And i really dont have a clue who this third party is. But it sounds to me a bit it could be Keyser Soze!

The entire White house management couldnt hide bill clinton getting a BJ off a member of his staff, but a employee of wigan rlfc can hide this from IL in a small town like wigan!

There is also the factor of their trashing the Wigan club. Regardless of what they actually think they are doing, or say they are doing - I can't fathom what their true motive might be - in spreading these unsubstantiated scurrilous stories they are damaging the club's name.

It is beyond naive for someone like FW to expect them not to be challenged on this, and to cry 'foul' when they are.

No they haven't. If they had warnings would have been given out. Questioning someone does not = bullying.

Please show the quotes and posts where this alleged bullying has taken place, or hit the report button on the offending posts which will then go directly to the mods only.

Its a disgrace, all of it.

Don't be so naive. I know what the allegations are and they can not be posted in an open forum. Do I believe them? I am not entirely convinced due to the extreme nature of what has allegedly gone on but when you are repeatedly told they can't be published in an open forum you have to decide if you value the opinion of those posting or not. And giving the information out in private is something to consider very carefully. Dishing it out to all and sundry to people you don't know is rather a risky thing to do so needs to be done with caution.



You can say that but I bet you are not. You will I am sure have a nagging doubt something is amiss. I do despite as I said the fact the extreme nature of the allegations because there are always two sides to every story and we have only heard one. Even if there were not these rumours hovering in the background I think anyone with a sense of reason will realise we have only heard one side of it but I suppose a lot fans tend to be very unquestioning when it comes to their club. If this were some high profile person dismissed from I don't know, a top media job or something, people would be far more questioning in the face of an apparent hatchet job from their former employer.

The problem is though when people make a statement that they feel they know what has gone on with a situation its far too easy for people to just dismiss a posters comments. Many people on these forums know each other personally but many don't know each other at all and can't possibly know anything about them, Who they are, what they do, the circles of people they know and who they mix with.

I know what I know from several different people form all sides of this situation and not just heard a rumour from a player as is assumed. I have heard what I believe to be the full story from what somebody described on here as a "Category A Source" and that information has been backed up and confirmed by various people connected directly to the situation (even people of a legal persuasion). That is why I have no intention of divulging any incriminating information. I agree slightly with Fylde Warrior that from my understanding it doesn't add up to IL knowing the facts as if he did I can't see how a certain senior member of staff could still be employed by the club.

I also know and can say quite confidently as others have that some of the parties involved have been involved in unsavoury incidents with the club before so their involvement in this instance and their avenue to the club still being present doesn't surprise me in the slightest.

If that is the case, there is no possibility this 'truth' will be kept from the top brass at Wigan RL.

We ought to draw a line under this now, and wait and see. If something happens, you'll be vindicated. If nothing happens, you'll realise that you didn't have the full facts.

This is exactly my point, I do believe I know the truth so its probably easy for me to say but even if I knew nothing there is still enough of a doubt in my mind to suggest that something is amiss, for somebody like Gaz Hock who is a wigan lads whos life has revolved around rugby to suddenly walk away from his home town club amidst suggestions of refusing to train etc. His Video interview at Widnes did not look like somebody who wanted to be there.

What makes you think IL is unaware of the rumours?

If Hock won't say anything on the matter which I am told he will most certainly not do, what would you expect IL to do? Given the situation IL has done the only thing he could do. Hock has done all the things listed in the press release and while some look a bit dubious a thing to beat him up with (asking for a pay rise) they certainly allow IL to justify his actions which I am sure he felt he had to do to the fans. The alternative would have been to sack Wane but based on what? What IL has been told by someone that Hock won't confirm? Under the circumstances Hock had to go but that doesn't mean IL is unaware of the rumours.

I agree with drawing a line under it, everybody has said their bit. I don't necassarily agree that if nothing happens I won't have had the full facts as you claim as it will just be another instance of something happening within the club that hasn't been made public, you and I both know there have been several instances of this happening and I'm not convinced the truth will ever be made public unles its in a book or something in 20-30 years. I think the outcome has been done in a way to end it in the interests of all involved.


I hope its not the conclusion as I wish the truth would come out but sadly in my opinion it won't, not with the people involved.

Do you reckon that there'd be a way back for Hock, were IL to be persuaded that your version of events is the correct one?

It was said by one poster repeatedly that IL was told this mystetious 3rd party was unknown to one of the conspirators and thatIL was not in the loop!

I'd like to think there could be given that Hock is only on a 12month loan and Wanes contract runs out in 12months, if Wane weren't around anymore a different coach may want Hock at the club and Hock's disagreement with the club may ease with time. IL's statement was pretty scathing but aside from wage demands (which IMO isn't a surprise given what I believe he was on) the other obvious reason was refusal to train and rehabilitate after his injury and I am led to believe that this wasn't the case and that Hock hasn't missed any training or rehab whatsoever.

Well there, Vectra, you are letting your prejudice show.

We know there are two sides to every story. So far, you've done pretty well representing Gareth's side of the tale, but there are numerous people I know who will take very great issue with these particular assumptions.

It's okay to support Hock if he's a friend or whatever, but remember ... many, many times in the past he has been the architect of his own misfortunes. I'll say it one more time, don't believe everything you are told.

On a personal note I'd like to think there is a way back for Hock, I presume, if the current coach left, all be it this is not completely out of the question, he may return, but that's my opinion.

If you don't like or believe what Vectra has to say then why keep going on about it? Could be interpreted that you are arguing without reason? After all, no matter what Vectra says you're not having it, which is ok, but why keep going on about it?

Well the same could be said of you. You're still on here, despite telling everyone that you don't care what they think. Despite having nothing new to offer to the debate.

But I'll answer your question. It's become quite clear that you guys genuinely believe what you are saying. Whoever has given you this information has obviously persuaded you. While I personally am not persuaded, because as well as hearing the story you've heard, I've heard an alternative more plausible version, I was starting to think that at least you were all being honest in that you genuinely felt there was a problem.

But Vectra's last post changes that a little. When he starts talking about Hock being on a pittance and not having missed training etc, I know quite a few people who would strongly dispute those claims. So suddenly it all sounds like propaganda from the Gareth Hock camp again.

Sorry, but that's the way it comes over.

I'm not showing any predjudice whatsoever and I couldn't agree more about Hock being the architect of his own problems. I don't know Hock at all personally, other than the odd passing out and about. I'm just saying that as a player he still has a value worth and as a player and its his right to expect to be paid to this, granted he was on a contract. I believe (not getting into how) he was on a gradually increasing contract reduced from what he used to be on as a result of his ban, as was released by the club it was voulantarily increased (as part of his contract) and he felt that he was worth more so presumably asked for it? is this so wrong given that he could probably have got more elsewhere (as many other players have done so before him without getting slammed on these boards) and would have been had his protracted move to Parra not fallen through.

And you are entitled to your opinion. So lets agree to disagree instead of filling over 50 pages of the same thing which all equal to "You've said this and I don't believe you or agree". See it took me a single sentence.

Nowhere have I suggested that Hock is on a "pittance" I've just stated that I believe he was on a lot less than before his ban and that alledgedly he hasn't been missing training. I'll repeat again I'm not getting into how I know these things and it is your right to disbelieve but I have no reason whatsoever not to believe them.

Once again I am not in a camp, I am speaking purely for myself based on information I believe to be true

I think that Last Son of Wigan and/or Vectrabeast should arrange a private meeting with Ian Lenagan (that way no one else is involved) ans explain what they know.
It's been stated many times on here that information has been withheld. Surely that would be in the best interests of the Wigan club.

I saw somewhere that a legal source was mentioned.

Maybe a Wigan practicing member of IL's family could facilitate the meeting.