Those are false figures. They count the metres from the point the player catches the ball, we count the meters gained over the advantage line. Your comparing oranges with apples.

With the evolution of the full back role, there is no need to have an extra pivot at 13 anymore. It's nothing to do with lazy coaches.
Farrrell would still be a back rower in the modern game, as would SOL if he came through now, as their physical attributes are suited to that position.
Hanley would still be a centre or a stand off now, as he was in his prime.

Why have we retained SOL then?
He patently cannot play regular minutes nor be considered for selection on a regular basis.

It could be argued that he was a loose forward in his prime. He played in that position for both Wigan and in the NRL.

To be fair to the club I think they have tried to rectify the matter by signing Burgess, Bullock, Clark and Singleton, it simply hasn't paid dividends to date. Bullock is now proving his worth and Singleton has yet to make an appearance. Clark is a squad player at present and the less said about the Burgess situation the better, I hope he goes on to prove everyone wrong, including me.

OK I take the point about NRL stats being calculated differently, but the evidence of your eyes is there.Anyone watching Week 1 of the NRL Finals saw props making metres like they should. Just compare the twins, for a start!

I do think props are a problem but in the last Grand Final we won our front row was Flower, Navarette, Sutton and Clubb. Is that significantly better than what we have now?

In 2016 we had Flower, Crosby, Tautai, Nuuausala and Sutton. A mixture of average, young and useless I'd say.

We did have Bateman making yards and Gelling and Sarginson were meter eaters in the backs but it does make me think Wane was getting more out of what he had.

The intensity you'd expect in a semi final was clearly missing on Saturday.

With Singleton coming we could see improvement but it will be the attitude that makes the difference imo. Our backs can score but not if we're playing the whole game in our half.

How long have we been discussing the need for a couple of 'sh¡thouse' forwards. Five years? Longer?

Our back line would have a field day with a pack that eats metres (along with a half back place kicker with half a brain).

Said this years ago, I said this only a couple of years ago and now I'm finding myself saying it again..... If only we had a couple of Craig Smith type props we'd be laughing.

I've been banging on about how we should have made a big offer to Wakefield for Fifita only for him to sign a three year deal in 2019. We should have pinched him a year earlier.... Hell, we should have identified and targeted him prior to his arrival at Wakefield.

Instead for years we've messed around with inferior props... Pettybourne, Tautai, Clubb, Flower, Frank Paul ping pong ball and now Burgess (probably missed a few off which goes to show how memorable they have been).

The recruitment at prop has been poor but the only real defence I could offer the club is that not many other clubs have signed top prop forwards these last couple of years. Saints had Walmsley and Thompson already, Wire had Hill and Cooper and so on. The big mistake for me was the club not backing Wanes wish to sign Liam Watts back in 2018. They should’ve done whatever was necessary to make that happen. Had they done so, I doubt we’d have wasted the money we have on Burgess and all of a sudden your front row looks so much better if you have a four of Watts, Havard, Bullock and Flower for example.

The signing of Liam Watts would have been such a super acquisition. I can’t for the life of me think why we didn’t sign him. Finances are a clear non issue

no he wouldnt

And He wasn't

There's no way Hanley would be a loose forward in the modern game.

"With the evolution of the full back role"

In what way has it evolved since the day when Martin Ryan introduced running with the ball instead of just kicking it downfield?

Leeds struggling to run over Hull’s much bigger pack



I do wonder if stacking the team with back rowers and more “mobile props” (I hate that term) is just a massive overreaction to the set restart rule.

Cup final next week

Those 'kicking duels' were diabolical . They were still doing them in RU in the 70's when I was playing RU in the Army. Hated it so much, I refused to play RU anymore. You had to run backwards and forwards in the middle of the field without touching the ball at all for ages.

My old dad was a schoolmate of Martin Ryan at St Josephs. Ryan revolutionised Rugby league, being the first ever full back to link up with the threequarter line.

He's told you, the full back is now often an extra pivot.

Wasting your time

May have spoken too soon there pal

It won't sink in.

they still didn’t get destroyed as badly as us. Certainly didn’t get beaten up in the forwards.

Think Leeds would look a completely different side without Gale. Shows what a top kicker can do for you.

Definitely. It's a shame there's no internationals this year, I think he would have been worth a spot

Way before my time but I believe that Ryan also became the extra man in the line. It maybe called a pivot today but fundamentally the same.

It wasn’t used by most teams due probably lack of similar players to Ryan and that the game in general still thought that the fullback role was principally a defensive role.

"The full back is a extra pivot"

Unbelievable!

I was under the impression that his role was just the same as it has always been since Martin Ryan revolutionise the position.

Evidently not, according to the new definition by the new "experts" on the role of a full back"