Whilst I think the time is right for him to go, I only believe that because of the mess the club has got itself in to over a sustained period of time, which now means the players call the shots and decide when they’re going to leave. His head isn’t in it and realistically it looks like they’d have been better letting him go last year.

Major major change is needed at the club. As things stand we’re on our way to being a club that scraps between mid table and relegation because you can’t let your best players leave and not replace them. Ask me who Wigan’s overall best players were this time last year and I’d have said Sam Tomkins, Bateman, Williams and O’Loughlin. The chances are that in 2020 we will not have a single one left.

I’m usually a generally positive sole on here but I must admit I’m so frustrated with how things have been done recently. It’s simply not good enough for Wigan rugby league club.

The amount of players Wigan lose year in year out is ridiculous. Players go and are not replaced with the same level of quality.

Do I expect Wigan to go out and get a Top quality half back to replace Williams? Not really, they will likely do it on the cheap. It's not good enough.

Sadly that's exactly how I feel.

Yep, me too. I’m usually very positive about the club but I’m now starting to get very concerned about the way we’re headed. I’ve been a fan of promoting youth and we’ve been successful in doing so. However, those young players need to be surrounded by top quality, proven players. Once Lockers calls it a day, I fear the worst. We need a major injection of quality and we need it soon.
I still believe Edwards will come and this could be the blank canvas he needs to start from scratch. With the money we won’t be spending on Williams, O’Loughlin and Leuluai, added to the anticipated release of Tautai and hopefully a few others (Powell, Clubb) then the new coach, with a decent injection of cash we could have a real shake up and a new look squad from 2020.

I agree but....lets get through 2019 first. I do think that either Leneghan and/or Radlinski need to come out with a statement of intent or something. The mood around the club at the moment is as low as its ever been.

Do you think there'd be any creditability in it if they did?

I once had a good chat with West about recruitment structures, he said it was 3 level approach, promoting youth from within, looking at established SL players and bringing in top quality from overseas. This worked as almost a pyramid. Meaning at the top but the fewest was the NRL stars, perhaps only 1 or 2, the next level was established SL players, maybe double the number, then the rest was youth promotion.

NRL players were top class and brought in often a higher level of play, established SL players who were proven over here and would develop, and youth who were brought through and supported and developed by the players around them.

Personally I still like this structure which proved successful for many years.

Probably not, but continuing with this "bury the head in the sand" approach isn't helping anyone.

The only way you’ll be successful in pretty much only relying on your production line and cheap signings is if you keep your very best players and homegrown stars to succession plan with. At the minute we have Lockers and Leuluai who are probably our two real leaders and when they call it quits then the baton should’ve been passed down to the next in line and so on. The next in line were Sam Tomkins and Micky Mac but they’ve been let go to trim the wage bill. They would then pass it down to the likes of Bateman and any other younger player who stuck their hand up (maybe Williams with more experience) but they too have been let go, so now we’ll end up with a situation were an honest pro like Faz or Flower gets the captaincy even though they’re not really suited to it and the lack of quality in and around them will hurt their chances of success.

With major retirements coming up and us losing our better mid career aged players in Williams and Bateman, it was crucial to keep the leaders next in line, such as Sam Tomkins and McIlorum. The only way was it acceptable to lose them was to enable you to keep Bateman and Williams and we’ve failed to do that also.

Tough to see anything other then some really challenging seasons coming up.

What is going on at Wigan? Looking from the outside, things going from bad to worse.

The club looks in rudderless. I'm not here to troll. There is soo much negativity and uncertainty.

1. Established players like Tomkins x 2, McIllorum, Bateman have left and not really being replaced although Greenwood has been good.
2. Williams now leaving
3. Aging leaders in Leulai and O'Loughlin (not necessarily bad)
4. Unbalanced squad, too many wingers. A poor front row.
5. Some odd un-wigan like signings in Tautai, Isa and Sammut
6. A stop gap coach and a new coach with uncertainty about him actually coming. If he is looking at it now, does he want that role?

I think you need a new 6,7 and 9 plus a couple of front rowers.

Having said all that i expect a strong Wigan performance on Friday, and i wouldnt be surprised if we get turned over. As much as its quite amusing to see yourselves, and Leeds being so poor (so far this season). I'd prefer to have a strong league with strong teams.

All comes down to money recently. Selling for a profit and signing inferior talent for the best part.
There's an irony to it, unless IL invests heavily back into the squad he'll end up losing even more money as fans will be unwilling to spend their hard earned cash on watching a poor product.

lets get a world class 7 and play him with Harry Smith

How much have you seen of Harry Smith?

It seems to me a lot of stock is being put on this young lad he’s a talent but a long way from being ready for the SL

saw a good few games last year and the internationals at the end. Looked as good as Williams at the same age and if we get him with a classy experienced scrum half he may kick on to be great.

No way can we expect to go in with Harry Smith as first choice next year. It’s kids like him I fear for with all this experience walking through the door. Ideally you want to drip feed him in to a confident, winning side busting with experience and leaders, in the same way many young lads in the last decade have been but we’re running the risk of these young stars like Smith, Smithies, Havard and co being asked at some point to come in to a side devoid of quality and still being expected to perform.

If thats the case there is no point having an academy, we may aswell just sign youngsters once fully developed

You don’t usually develop kids by just throwing them in as first choice at the start of a year. If Smith were to be ready to start 2020 at scrum half then we’d need to get him at least 10/15 games in the first team this year. I’d say realistically we need to sign two halfbacks for 2020 and maybe use Smith in the odd game here and there, either starting or from the bench, to help him develop and become a starter maybe in the following year.

Shame, I want to see the best players in our competition even if it is playing for Wigan. Always liked Williams, he is a talent.

some you do...Did with Williams and Burgess. We need to start planning for next year now

Another frustrating display from him.

Anonymous for most of the match but seemed to spark up at about the hour mark and showed some real quality all be it for a fairly brief spell.

I know our pack was bettered for most of the match but marquee players have to be able to deal with that and mix it up and he just doesn’t seem willing or able to step up at times.

I look forward to watching him for the rest of the year as I am sure his quality will shine through but I think the expected move to the NRL will be a good move for both player and club.

Burgess yes (only 2 appearances before being given the 5 shirt) but we certainly didn’t with Williams. He took the 6 shirt in 2015 after making 24 appearances in 2014 (plus 2 in 2013)with a mixture of starts and bench appearances. That’s an ideal scenario for a young pivot IMO. It’s a bit different for a winger as well, I think you can expect them to settle in a bit quicker in a position with much less responsibility.

I’d be all for Smith being our scrum half in 2020 alongside a top stand off but to do that we need to get him in to the side at points this season for some experience. That’s a tough thing to do considering our form at the moment.

so he was played in most games in 2014 after a very small cameo in 2013 of 2 games.

11 starts and 13 bench appearances with a lot of them at hooker to ease him in to the side.

That would be an ideal scenario for Smith in 2020 of course but I don’t think we can afford to think we say ‘there’s the seven shirt’ and expect him to boss the team round for 30 games.

we can afford not too