That's a bit unfair IMO. Granted, we were murdered by them at the HJ but if it wasn't for 3 minutes of stupidity from Lauaki we'd have won the game at our place, he certainly wasn't outcoached that night.

If we attack like we did at the magic weekend, and put that amount of effort and character in like last night then I'm not worried. I've seen more than enough from Wane's Wigan this year to tell me we can win our next 3 games.

We started the season well, as of late our attack has been VERY predictable.

As for your second comment, Charnley scores an awful lot of solo tries were he beats his opposite man and goes round them with pace so I wouldn't read too much into that

i guess i should qualify before i go searching, do any of the matches we won count?

Of course.

Fire away............

when he went off after first spell he was top tackler....doubt a first timer would do that.
i agree in attack tho, he was mainly a dummy runner, but it kept saints guessing

Exactly. Could argue Charnley would have scored more with Inglis as his centre by that logic.

For what it's worth this was my post after the Wire game...

"Beaten, bullied, out played.

Our attack seems highly predictable, seems to be the same movement every week, half/dummy runner to half/dummer runner to Sam linking up from the back causing a 3 v 2 overlap with Daz and Josh on his outside. From this we seem to get either Sam dummy and go, pass to Daz or cut out ball to Josh. (Of course this movement is evident on the other side of the pitch with George etc).
9/10 it works against lesser teams. its fast and with Sam's ability we score from it. But against a good coach it becomes transparent. Wire easily cancelled out our best attacking weapon (Sam) simply by having JM cut in and stop the moment when Sam is about to take on the ball. Regardless of such predictably there was no plan B.

In contrast when St George were coached by Wayne Bennett they perfected the moment whereas the defence had no idea who was going to run, who was going to be the dummy runner and who was going to finish with the ball.

They used Soward to break away, from here the defence would not know if he's going to take on the line or pass, with this he had a SR Ben Creagh alongside with Cooper and Morris as an attacking centre/winger partnership. To add another threat Boyd joined the line from FB. At this point any of the mentioned could be the ball carrier, anyone the dummy runner. When the 5 attack down the flank in a line the 3/4 of the opposition would be scared to death of what was going to come next.

We don't have such movement, we look predictable, basically cancel Sam and you've stopped our attack, with StG if Boyd was stopped one of the others would be still a threat.

I think we have the players to create something different, the drills need to be practised and coached, I barely see any other pattern, we play into the oppositions hands.

Warrington like to throw the 'first punch' hit us hard and keep on the pressure from the get-go, the opposition tire from tackle after tackle and become vulnerable and exposed, and of course when you're tired you are more likely to make mistakes. This happened, it's almost as if Wane fires up certain players so much they lose their heads, case in point Micky.

This season Micky has proven his ability as a top 9, however, at times, when fired up he seems more concerned with intensity and letting us all know how 'ard he is' rather than keeping a cool head. If he was a backrower it would be different, but as a 9 you must have composure and awareness, I for one have never ever seen Cam Smith lose his cool, today of all days, playing with just a single 9 he had to be so in-control, I feel he wasn't, (at one point he was rolling on the floor with Moz to show us how 'ard he is'.
This created such a negative impact, at times when we needed to generate momentum getting on a roll with the forwards we never did, Micky wasn't at the races. If he cooled down and became a 'game leader' rather that an enforcer we'd would have had more chance of winning the arm-wrestle.

The forwards were rattled, Wire brought an 'origin esque' attitude, a winning mentality which has been inspired by their coach and key on on field leaders, Morley showed his calibre and leadership which Hill followed with great effect. Westwood showed his winning desire and played for his life. Excellent mentality throughout.
In opposition to this who are actually our leaders? Lockers, love him, great player, but leader? Undecided. We have some excellent props but who's the enforcer/leader? If one of the props matched Morley maybe Micky wouldn't feel the need to enforce from 9. Eric for me was the best player, he brought it, pity Mossop didn't stand up, and I think it's about time Prescott was pushed to one side for other props, can't remember seeing a prop lose the ball so much on impact. Lima worked hard but he needs more support.
Hock is 'origin' in his approach but seems to have trouble raising intensity without losing his head, with this Wane panics and takes him off.

We don't seem mentally ready. Maybe Wane's I'll shout them down get angry until they play better approach isn't always the best way to deal with a beaten team. We almost seem nervous and afraid of Wire, we shouldn't be.

It's time for a plan B, more options in attack with a strong steel mentality which shows no fear, no backing down. Won't lose our heads or temperament but we'll tackle so hard they will be scared to take the line on."

anyone know if tommy is ok,he limped off last night.

St Helens game at Manchester Magic?

Now that would REALLY be worth winning!

Getting the Catalans is not the worst result of last night and to slate a team that played 75% plus of the game is being short sighted, I think last night could be the best way to motivate the team for the play offs. Players who had been slated really stood up last night, Mossop looked aggressive and the extra effort needed by the 12 men left on the pitch showed no shortage of desire. To expect an attack to work effectively with 12 men is harsh and when the missing man is the dummy half it compounds the effect on the attack. Extra defence also means less energy can be used in attack. I would be more worried if I was a Saints fan.

Yes. It would be far better for the future of the game to let you bankrupt yourself snapping up all available playing talent and buying hollow trophies for the next decade, with every other team in the league being turned into the Washington Generals wouldn't it? That would soon have SL booming and interest and cash pouring into the game at all levels... You lost your stadium and your history doing that last time, remember? If next time ever happens then what's left of the sport would die with you instead...

And we will all indeed be playing at the London level soon, but that has sod all to do with the cap - blame football and (to a lesser extent) the RU and NRL. The cab would do nothing but hasten the inevitable demise.

No, I don't remember us losing our history. You're going to have to give us all a good laugh telling us how that works.

I think you'll find Wigan recorded another profit for the past financial year ....... Saints I think was a £2m+ loss (on top of numerous other losses pre the Widnes move) ....... so don't worry about us going bankrupt.

Mind you, a pityful away following by the Saints fans on Friday night could well hit our cashflow. Maybe Saints lack the funds to repair the band wagon their fans like to ride

How embarrassing! Can you please put your argument forward again, but not in a way that makes you out to be ill informed?

Couldn't agree with you more. I congratulate you on your impeccable self-insight.





Oh, you actually meant embarassing [ifor me[/i?

Your argument is rather flawed by the fact that interest in RL was at an all time high when Wigan had their great team, with Hanley, Edwards, Offiah being genuine household names throughout the country and even further afield, culminating in their being named BBC Sports Personality team of the year, all this is scarcely believable less than 20 years later when the general public in a northern city like Manchester or a town like Preston don't even know the sport exists.

That's what sporting excellence does for you.

The second tier of clubs - Fev, Oldham, Swinton, Workington etc were all far stronger than they are now both in terms of playing resources and attendances, and contrary to popular beliefs actually turned Wigan over on occasions.

Correct, i would struggle to name a member of the current Stains team....

BTW Preston is, i believe, a city. Sorry to be a pedant.

'"

Ah time for you to single out you favourite scapegoat again. You made your mind up years ago about Goulding and didnt want him playing at all this season. You will never change your opinion of him, no matter what he does, and are always looking for ways to justify this opinion. It is a little pathetic that after him being great this season you cant wait to have a dig again. It probably shows just how good he has been this season that you havent felt you had any grounds to do so until now.

What you say is complete rubbish. He wasnt abysmal last night, he was no worse than many others. We were a man down, leaving overlaps out wide and he had an unfit Tommy defending inside him, indeed often he was defending in Tommys position because Tommy was shattered. You must have missed a lot of the big games this season. In the semi final he was one of our best players and was 3rd in Bilkos MOM poll so he obviously wasnt rubbish. Against Saints in away and against Saints at Millenium Magic he had cracking games and again was amongst our best players. Agaisnt Leeds both home and away he played very well too. That is before you even get to the likes of Huddersfield and Bradford. Simply making things up certainly doesnt make your opinion any more valid and make your argument all the more stupid.

His winger has scored 37 tries, he has more try assists than any other centre in Super League with 15 and has himself scored 10 tries. His defence has also been great and our right hand side defence has looked better than it has for many years. Some fans just see what they eant to see with regards certain players.

I think a few people need to take a close look at why we have lost some of our bigger games this season rather than laying the blame on a couple of scapegoats;

1) Both Leeds and Wire we made numerous basic handling and discipline mistakes - resulting in us not having the ball for a very large % of the game. Despite this we still almost beat leeds despite gifting them the majority of our points. If we look after the ball we will score points on anyone.

2) Tommy L - he usually provides the unpredictability up the middle - able to attack the line and causes some uncertainty in the mind of the defence who are probably watching for our 'usual' round the back to Sam. No coincidence that when he's been injured we have looked more predictable.

3) The loss of a number of our props for large parts of the season - highlighted when we played wire last time.

4) Pat injured - again - in big games his partnership with George puts doubt into the defenders mind - something we were lacking when Gelling was filling in.


For those critics who are saying we are far more predictable under Wane:

- look at our points scored record.
- take a look at the posts from last season saying 'we have been found out' in our attacking plays - we were far more predictable at the end of last season.
- look at Finch's play - he has played far better this season than last, better attacking options, better variation - we were totally reliant on his flat pass to Hoffman last season - now he has far more options. Again he has gone off the boil - but he came back too early from injury - again resulting in a loss in a big game , and he has been playing without TL.
- in attack, Sam has been far more creative than last season. Previously he was 100% certain to dummy and try and cut inside - now he has far more variety in his own plays.


Wane hasn't done everything right this year - but he has made us more creative in attack.

How anyone can lay into Goulding for poor defence when playing for 60+ minutes with a man down is beyond me. In attack - I've lost count of the number of flick passes he's put out for Charnley to score - if he had an aussie passport people would be creaming themselves over his attacking play.

Take a hard look at the game rather than looking for scapegoats - there are areas we can improve for sure but a few people here make themselves look pretty silly by selecting individuals.

Careful, you are in danger of crossing "those who are always right"... Top post Big Steve.

Childs didn't make the decision, Ganson did!

No he didn't, Childs had decided on the sending off before any interference from Ganson.

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Obviously, so do you !!!