Academy stand off and professional stand off are 2 completely different things Rouges and you the avid academy watcher should be only to well aware of this.

I played rugby with Jon Clarke at primary school and saw him play stand off, it means bugger all.

Played standoff for the first team too, when Barrett was injured, IIRC.

And the fact that he couldn't displace Josh Veivers at fullback for the reserves should also tell you something.

How many FULL TIME Stand offs you know in SL that can displace Lee Briers?

What's that got to do with anything?

I just don't get why you can't grasp that Tony Smith didn't think Mathers was good enough to be the first choice fullback at Warrington, so he signed Hodgson.

Jesus.

I can grasp that, it's just the insinuation that TS got rid because he thinks he's gash.

Well, gasher than Hodgson at least.

This is just foolishness.

Mathers is, at best, an extremely average player, who is not good enough for either the current Wigan or Warrington teams.

Surely, this communal attempt to save face by so many Wire fans (regarding the transfer-deal that took him from Wigan to Wire) is not blinding ALL of you to that reality?

And saying that he was gash at Wigan because Wigan didn't help his confidence (whereas good old Warrington did) is completely laughable. It's not only an attempt to endorse the nonsensical myth that Wire got the better end of the Gleeson/Mathers deal, but it's trying to add a moral dimension to it.

You bought a pup and sold him on. Good grief, everyone but you lot can see it.

Of course he is gash, I mean if you sign a player to replace someone, it means you dont think their up to standard.

Its not hard to understand this.

Richard Mathers was the first full back Wire have had that was utilised as an additional half back, joining the attacking line late as an extra pivot and creating the extra man for many tries. FACT

It was something totally new to Warrington and brought us immediate success. FACT

to my mind there was one player that did that better and that was Brett Hodgson plus he was an exceptional Goalkicker plus he was available. FACT

Wigan Fans profess to know the ins and outs of our Full backs but they couldnt even name our fullback before Mathers.....

Your Rafa Benitez and I claim my £5.

You havent had an out and out FB in years who was good until Hodgson but I do remember Hicks and Grose playing there for you, and Reardon at a push, but before that Lee Penny was you number 1 I remember - But we cant forget Darryl Cardiss though

I like a bit of banter and all but i don't give a stuff about the c*ck measuring Gleeson/Mathers stuff that's posted on here. I'm not trying to justify who got the better deal, i think on paper most neutrals would say Wigan but most Wire won't, not because we hate Wigan or blind loyalty but for the simple fact he actually played well and improved our side and Gleeson was on the slide and didn't want to be here.

Don't forget on a side note Mathers left on good terms whereas Gleeson didn't.

Sometimes players just suit one team and not another, Wigan fans seem to struggle with the fact that Wire fans rated him when he played for us and Wigan fans never did.

Mathers is like the fat bird you dated at school and then eventually dump her because you got sick of the mickey taking by all your friends, she then loses weight looks absolutely stunning and then dates the one person you hate the most.

Wow cant believe this is still going on again. Mathers will do well at Cas, but then again that is his level. An average Super League team.

Give them a year or so, and Cas will be an above average team.

Send him to some no hoper club, like Leeds.

Not Bad,
Hicks was an out and out Winger who played once or twice at Fullback. Grose was actually a centre, who had one good year at fullback, Reardon we thought was going to be a proper fullback for us but he was hopeless under high balls and really his only strength was kick returns, he then got injured and we got rid, and Mathers was our first proper competent full back.(yes competent)

go and Ask Salford Fans if Luke Patten is error free...he wasnt in the NRL and isnt for Salford......many full backs arent.
Even Big Sam made a couple of fumbles live on Sky Tv last time out for you lot....if you like your fullback and you think his good outweighs the bad then your going to let them go arent you.

you didnt like Mathers thats fair enough but to try and tell us he was gash for us is wrong.

Surely if we are going back as far as Lee Penny to name a better full back than Mathers its not hard to see why Wire Fans are inclined to think He did a good job.

He did a good job got two winners medals and has moved on.........nowt else to see here....

Didnt Ricky Bibey win two challenge cup medals?

Didn't Leuluai win a world cup?

No I dont think Kylie has ever played for New Zealand.

Your point being?

If your club rated him, you'd have kept him for another few years, not replaced him with an Aussie in his 30s (who, while he's a good player, can't have anything like as much fuel left in the tank as Mathers).

When we first signed him, most of us welcomed him because we thought he'd be a good un. He proved us wrong in almost every aspect of his game, except his positive attitude. I can't even accept that you lot thought he was good because you hadn't seen a decent fullback for two decades. A fullback's two basic requirements are to be able to tackle and to field high balls. Mathers did neither for us, and I saw him fail in those departments plenty of times for you.

And the winners medals have nothing to do with it. Plenty of crap players have anaged to accrue winners' medals. All that means is they were in the right place at the right time.

Something people seem to forget is that Mathers first came into the Leeds team when Gary Connolly was injured. He then performed so well that when Connolly was available to play, he couldn't get a game and was allowed to return to Wigan on a free transfer.

and the four nations, and a grand final and the MOM in the grand final...

not played in many grand finals though has he?

Got a 100% record IIRC.

Has Sinfield?

100% record in grand finals and world cups. Is only 25 too.

no but Kilie has