Fair Point mate!

Well we need a couple of Props, a Half Back, a Centre and a Winger

Taking what I was saying this time last year and transposing it to current debates is a bit pointless, top marks for memory though. To update my views for your records:

O'Carroll - hasn't really kicked on from last year and fallen back in the rankings, partly through injury and partly through not taking his chances. May well be worth loaning him out if a SL club is interested and the other props are fit. I wouldn't play him ahead of Prescott on last known form and he needs to stay fit to prove his worth.

Ainscough - didn't really get a shot all season, no suprise with Roberts' form at the start of the year and Pryce's at the end. Think he'll suprise us at Bradford though.

Mossop - I just love how hard he goes into the collision and his ability to not let the opposition find the floor coming out of their 20. As for defensive flaws, he can look a little too slow sliding across but I think he's fine at prop, more of a problem at second row that.

Prescott - great end to the season but I've really not seen much in him this year other than that. Think he's been lucky to make the team a few times this year with the wrong players being injured/suspended. Has he really not been dropped all year? Fair enough if true but I'm not going to do the whole emperors new clothes thing of assuming he's brilliant just because Maguire picks him. Might as well shut down the board as blindly agree with the club all the time. I'm not trying to have a go at him just think he's a bit overated at the mo.

Can't get on the stats off my phone so I might be setting myself for a fall here but how do his pens and errors stack up?

Taking what I was saying this time last year and transposing it to current debates is a bit pointless, top marks for memory though. To update my views for your records:

O'Carroll - hasn't really kicked on from last year and fallen back in the rankings, partly through injury and partly through not taking his chances. May well be worth loaning him out if a SL club is interested and the other props are fit. I wouldn't play him ahead of Prescott on last known form and he needs to stay fit to prove his worth.

Ainscough - didn't really get a shot all season, no suprise with Roberts' form at the start of the year and Goulding's at the end. Think he'll suprise us at Bradford though.

Mossop - I just love how hard he goes into the collision and his ability to not let the opposition find the floor coming out of their 20. As for defensive flaws, he can look a little too slow sliding across but I think he's fine at prop, more of a problem at second row that.

Prescott - great end to the season but I've really not seen much in him this year other than that. Think he's been lucky to make the team a few times this year with the wrong players being injured/suspended. Has he really not been dropped all year? Fair enough if true but I'm not going to do the whole emperors new clothes thing of assuming he's brilliant just because Maguire picks him. Might as well shut down the board as blindly agree with the club all the time. I'm not trying to have a go at him just think he's a bit overated at the mo.

Can't get on the stats off my phone so I might be setting myself for a fall here but how do his pens and errors stack up?

O'Carroll, Davies, Mellor, Marsh and Charnley it is then?
(you wish

)
In all seriousness, it will be interesting to see what is made of this.

Look, no-one is saying (Or should I say I'm not saying) that there aren't a dozen other props out there who couldn't do a similar job etc.

What I am saying is that when your carrying Fieldens/Fekas/Coleys(albeit Coleys a bit less) wages and then next season Fielden & Coley & Lima your going to struggle to get a 4th/5th prop in there from the Top drawer costing Top Dollar.

I'm more than happy for IL/MM to assess our options and if there are a couple of players in front of someone for a starting spot then I would consider sending then out on loan (Davies/Marsh/Tuson) or releasing them (Pryce/Phelps).

What I am saying is that Prescott has done a Good solid if somewhat unspectacular job at times in a Front row that's just won a GF when he was arguably 3rd choice prop in front of fans favourite Feka.

Fielden/Coley/Lima - 3 of the starting 4 no arguments.

I watched Davies last season and his form at Widnes/Reserve level was nowhere near replicated at SL level and understandably so, he's What? only 19/20? Lets give him time and play him when it suits us and him not because we HAVE to play him!
O'Carroll has been injured 3/4 qtrs of last season and this and IMO even at his best is arguably no better than Prescott who has played nearly treble the games He has. And TBH, A good Big un will always beat a good little un. So in that respect an average Big un will always beat an average little un!
Mossop has played 90% of his games 2nd row and we've yet to see how is return to action goes.
Hock - Lets wait and see.

So for me who else is there for the 4th choice prop?

Now if Hock and Mossop come back absolutely all guns blazing then there'll be no-one happier than me to see Prekky lining up as 18th man, it will show how good of a squad we have.
If Prescott/O'Carroll etc are happy to stay on the wages they're getting then I'm also happy, more options the better.
But if they start asking for stupid money OR they're staying blocks youngsters from coming through (Bearing in mind Coley 1yr? Fielden2yr so if we let too many go now it could come back to haunt us in 12 months) then fair enough let them go.

PS

I bet his pen/error "Stats" count favourably to any player who's played the same games etc apart from the top couple of SL/International players.
In fact, just had a quick check and compared him to Fielden/Coley in a few areas! These are regular rounds as well so don't count the games were you say he was better i.e semi final and final.

Appearances 21 --- Coley 21 ------ Fielden 25
Tries 0
Try assists 0
Goals 0
Drop Goals 0
Meters 1592 = 6.9mtrs per carry ----- Coley 285/1921 = 6.74 mtr per carry ---- Fielden 358/2543 =7.1mtr per carry
Carries 230
Tackles 426 ---- Coley 523 --- Fielden 607
Offloads 9
Tackle Busts 16
Marker tackles 52
Missed tackles 19 --- Coley 22 ----- Fielden 18
Errors 9 ---- Coley 16 ---- Fielden 18
Penalties 16 --- Coley 23 ---- Fielden 17
Red cards 0
Yellow cards 0

Now I take the stats with a pinch of salt, and I've picked a few out that are Key to Props success and for me if there is any kind of accuracy with these then he counts favourably in all departments against 2 of the props that were over the moon they've just signed new deals.

End of the day, his work rate (Considering Fielden/Coley have played more games and more minutes) is good.
His stats are comparable in many ways if not better than the other 2
And, He's young, He's relatively cheap and IMO getting better and more importantly for me BIGGER!

Prescott is an OK player and as Jukesays mentions you can't have four top paid props in the side.

On the subject of statistics the fact he played as many games as he has this season isn't a ringing endorsement when his main competitors which are O'Carroll and Mossop were both injured. It certainly wasn't Feka as if those two had been fit it would have been which one of Prescott, O'Carroll or Mossop would Madge have chosen before Feka.

O'Carroll was in the side before Prescott this year and up until the play off series I would not have said Prescott had cemented his place as 4th prop starting next season based on his league form.

That said it all seemed to click for him come the play offs so he will certainly have done his chances no harm of getting the nod when all players are available at the start of 2011.

Dave

If we're to loan 4 players out to Quins I can't see them including guys like Mossop or Phelps tbh. If Phelps is still here then he'll be here to be part of our squad unless we have a 24hr callback clause on him(which I don't really see the point of for a quota player). As for Mossop he's got a 5 year deal under his belt here at Wigan and I see him as a big member of the squad when he's back up and running. I think he's got quite abit of work to do to get himself back ahead of guys like Farrell but he's a real talent and if he cant his head right on a more consistant basis(takes his foot off the gas too much against lesser sides for my liking) he could be one of the best forwards in superleague.

I'd be happy enough for us to loan out somebody like O'Carroll with a 24hr callback and probably look at other guys with less experience like Tuson, Davies, Marsh, Mellor etc to follow suit.

A player i'd like to see stay here would be Josh Charnley. He looked a real prospect at the back end of last year and with Richards being out early doors I could see him getting quite abit of gametime.

Sorry to pick you up on this Dave but



Prescott played in the 11 of the 1st 12 games this season and the only game he missed was bradford away which was the 5th game so he played the first 4.
O'Carroll didn't play until the 4th game of the season.

From then on they both played until around early May when O'C got injured, he never forced his way back in after that.
Prescott on the other hand didnt miss a game IIRC until end of July when he got the Retina problem in training, to come back from that in 4/5 weeks I believe was a tremendous bonus after what seemd like a season ending & possibly career threatening injury.
The previous couple of games we had to rely on Hansen at Prop and Davies/Tuson coming off the bench, for me this is were we became too lightweight and teams bullied us a bit.
Feka partly solved that with his return/selection but I believe Prescott also provided us with a bit of size up front and let the back rowers get on with their jobs more effectively after that.

Fair enough his pen and error stats aren't nearly as bad as I thought. He just seemed to come up with one too many important errors/pens in important games but I think in this area the stats aren't likely to lie. Hope he starts the season like he finished it by hitting form early ready to push for the 10 shirt in 2012.

From the number of games played when available Prescott must be doing a lot right or else MM wouldn't select him.
He's 24 and Wigan have spent a lot of money developing him. For a prop at 24 his best is yet to come.
Prescott will stay IMO and get selected when injury or suspension free.
The club would not just be mad to let him go but absolutely barking!!!!!!!!!!!!

I agree with this. The lad's doing fine.

Loaning to Quins obviously benefits Wigan, and from the other side it really isn't very different to signing a player on a 1 year contract. From Quins point of view they would have to be (if they are indeed youngsters) far superior to their own academy/fringe players. This means they would have played SL last year. I would imagine they would be pretty damn good fringe first-team players/academy starlets, but would Wigan retain the right to recall any of the purported four with 24 hours notice.

Stefan Marsh
Ben Davies or Eamon O'Carroll
Chris Tuson or Lee Mossop
Josh Charnley or Johnny Walker

No point for Wigan letting them go on loan unless they will play, no point no Quins taking them unless they are far superior to their own and Wigan should insert a reasonable recall clause, if only for self-interest.

Walker has been released.

Now that Phelps contract hasn't been extended i cant see both Marsh or Charnley going. I'd be doubtful on either tbh but for me if one was to go i'd let Marsh go to me he needs the game time more to build up his composure in superleague games because at times he's seemed rushed and thrown some bad balls or just chose the wrong option. Charnley seems to have taken better to first team rugby and seems much more at ease.

Davies is a must for me to go out on loan. Last year at Widnes he ripped it up from all accounts and it wouldnt be the end of the world if he goes back there. Preferably he'll get snapped up by a superleague team though as he didnt seem to impose his self on any games last year although he didnt get too much of a chance.

For me the only players i'd be willing to let go with the situation at the moment is Marsh, Tuson, Davies, Mellor then i'd allow one of either O'Carroll or Mossop to go for the first 2/3 months to start with but with strict 24 hour recall clauses involved.

That is the key for me, any deal regardless of who it is for must have a recall stipulation in place.

If it were up to me the four I'd send to Quins would be.

Davies - Huge potential but with so many other props currently in front of him his chances of gaining experience at Wigan at present are limited. A stint with Quins would be far more beneficial to him than playing with Widnes at a lower level.

Tuson - He's going to find it increasingly difficult to get in the 17 next year particularly in the backrow in what is our most competitive position. A long term loan where he can develop and the Wigan club can see in which direction his career is heading would be best.

Marsh - Most likely behind Charnley in the pecking order of filling in for injured players. Again like Davies would benefit from playing at a higher level for an extended period of time.

Mellor - He's just come back from a major injury but like all the players above he no longer benefit's from playing in the reserves, a stint with Quins playing in SL will do him the world of good.

It would be fantastic for all involved if a deal like this could go through.

I think Tuson's form at the end of last season warrents him a place in the Wigan squad regardless of the competition.

Tuson is ok, but if Farrell is also playing we lose size in the pack.

Not when you've got Hoffman, Joel and Lockers in the backrow.

I'd have Tuson as the main condendor for a first team place at second row over Harrison Hansen based on last years performances.

While I agree he was good towards the back end of the year (although for me faded in the final weeks of the season, maybe due to it being his first year of first team action). I struggle to see him forcing his way into next year's 17. Assuming Madge goes with Joel and Hoffman to start with Farrel on the bench that still leaves Hansen out of the 17 who for me is ahead of Tuson in terms of ability. It shows what a tough job Chris has on his hand's of getting in the first team, and I haven't even mentioned Mossop or a possible returning Hock.

Speaking of Mossop I feel some of the criticism of him has been a little harsh, yes he does have his injury problems but so do many others such as McIlorum and O'Carrol. Thinking back to earlier this season when Lee was fit I thought in the Saints away game he was fantastic and put in a tremendous effort. What Mossop needs to do very much like Joel did this year is up his consistency levels, when your a youngster you can get a way with putting in the odd good performance and then being a passenger the next week, but now's the time he stops showing glimpses of his potential and actually shows on a consistent level that he's worthy of spot in the 17.

I wouldn't, I think although Hansen may not work quite as hard as Tuson he still does a lot and I think because of his size he has a lot more impact than Tuson.

I wouldnt have Tuson over HH at all. Tuson was brilliant when he came back from his loan spell at Cas but i think he seemed to tire abit and couldnt keep up with the speed of Super League hence why he was dropped in the Playoffs. I've really liked the way Harrison has progressed this year he runs the perfect lines onto sam, tommy and lockers passes, tackles like a mad man and drives like a prop. I actually do think the coaching staff will turn him into a Prop in the next couple of years and he will be a bloody good one once he gets some size on him. Once Fielden and Coley retire, Hansen, Hock, Mossop & Davies could be our fearsome foursome if all goes to plan...

I'd add both Crosby and Burke to those above. On the three occasions I've seen those two play they've both looked good.

I was under the impression the reason he never forced his way back in was because he remained injured and in the end had his season was ended due to his injury he never fully recovered from.



The point I was making was I do not think you can use the number of appearances as some sort of measure of how highly rated Prescott may be at the club when for large parts of the season we only had four fit props with sufficient experience (I include him in that group compared to Davies for example).

Dave