Warrington went into the semi final as the form team in Super League. They lost.

Form means nothing in a one off knock out match.

Leeds got hammered on the last game of last season to a 12 man Huddersfield, and still won the playoffs. Form means nowt. The regular season is truly meaningless and just a way of getting money out if the fans pockets. Why not just have a straight knockout between the Super League over 4 weeks to decide the title and be done with it? Any big club that doesn't perform and loses can be classed as 'bottling it' to use RL Fans forums greatest phrase.

Agree to a certain extent, belief does count for more than just form does, in a positive or negative way. Belief with good form is a much better platform for victory than belief on its own, but when belief turns into over, or misplaced confidence when you don’t have good recent form I think wining is much harder.

The only team that can have any claim whatsoever that league placings don't matter is Leeds - and they're a special bunch with real pedigree in play off rugby. If Leeds finished top and had home advantage throughout the play offs you'd put your house on them making the Grand Final, that other teams don't is as much down to Leeds' quality as their own failings.

As for form not meaning anything? Leeds got hammered by a Huddersfield side that seem to have their number, but that was at a time when we were actually playing quite well - to assume that a Wigan side with no comparable pedigree for delivering when it really matters can go from playing pretty badly AND losing to suddenly turning it back on and do well in the play offs because a couple of players (albeit special ones) are back on the park is breathtakingly arrogant.

Do people really struggle to see that, whilst this play-off system isn't perfect, it's only Leeds that have managed to make it look completely pointless. Every other team has had the chance to, but strangely they've not managed. Why is that do you think? Is it the system, or is it the teams?

I think this thread (as many others like it on other teams forums) shows that our game is turning into a right mess!

All season long all you read is, the weekly rounds are nothing, its all about the play off's, it shouldn't be like that, if you finish top you are the Champions.

But now...

After hitting a bit of poor form it all falls by the wayside, and it's okay as it means we can aim for 4th!!...really aim for anything but top spot is now acceptable??, most other team sports (football, union etc...) would see a coach/manager sacked for something like this!

Yes it might throw up a few tasty games in the playoffs, but all that will do will give the RFL the perfect excuse as to keeping the playoffs, I'd rather be seeing games like that week in week out, not just in September/October but I wont hold my breath!

I do actually think that the 2x12 3x8 format the RFL are proposing will provide "tasty games" near enough each week. Competitive teams should be playing against each other week in week out with genuine targets to aim for. As long as they have a top 4 or top 5 playoff system, it should reinvigorate the sport. If they kept top 8 though, we might as well pack up and go home...

Well why not go on the Leeds board then and tell them how wonderful they are and leave us to talk about Wigan

If Leeds are that good at knock out or play off rugby why can't they win the Challenge Cup? Lost the last six finals they've played in haven't they?
Won the last 6 GF's they've played in
Lost the last 6 C Cup Finals they've played in.
Why is that?

Believe it or not I didn't come on to show off about Leeds' success, but to try and dispel the myth that it doesn't matter where you finish in the ladder - and the best way I can see to do that is by pointing out that this 'easy route' business has only ever been 'exploited' by Leeds.

If you want to talk about success in the play offs from lower down the table then the only evidence you have that it can be done comes from Leeds. I'm sorry if the facts of the matter are problematic for you.

What makes you think that anything you've written is problematic for anyone?
My question was an easy one.
Why do Leeds win the GF's and lose their C Cup finals?
The reason Leeds got there via the "easy route" from fifth is because the past two seasons they finished fifth.

I am never one to jump to Leeds' defence, but saying it's easy from 5th is absolute nonsense as far as i'm concerned. in 2011 they played Hull (H), Huddersfield (A), Warrington (A) and St Helens at Old Trafford. 2012 they played Wakefield (H) then Catalans (A), Wigan (A) and then Warrington in the final.

Bare in mind they did not have a weeks rest throughout the whole 2012 season. That is certainly not an easy route in my opinion, bearing in mind in almost every playoff game they were all very close games

It's not easy to win the title from 5th but its easier in a top 8 format than it is in a top 5 or top 6 or even having to finish top of the league to win the title

After the last 7 matches in the 3x8 format the winner should go straight through to Old Trafford and second and third should play off to play the team that finished first then there would be no hanging about to finish fifth out of eight.

In order...
The fact that people don't seem to be able to comprehend the point I'm trying to make.
Leeds win their Grand Finals through a combination of excellent play, a better ability to handle the occasion than their opponents and the odd bit of luck and have lost their Challenge Cup Finals for exactly the opposite reasons - but hell, to get their three years on the bounce is still impressive.

Finally, and hitting on the point I keep trying to make that you are clearly refusing to acknowledge, there is no 'easy route' to the GF and only the freakish nature of this Leeds side makes it look like there is. I'd rather we finished top, it's the easiest route available.

Finishing top is the easiest route but under the current system finishing 4th is worse than finishing 5th. Catalans reward for finishing above Leeds last year was to get battered at DW and then have to back up, admittedly at home, to a Leeds side that had a nice, home warm up game against the team that finished 8th. That is the one major aspect of the playoff system that must be changed IMO.

Let's have a look at how last year would likely have gone under those scenarios:
Top 5
Week 1
Warrington v St Helens - This game did happen in week 1 anyway
Catalans v Leeds - This happened in week 2 anyway

Week 2
Wigan v St Helens - Alright we lost to them in the last round of that season but that was a dead rubber lost due to McIlorum getting himself sent off, pretty confident we would turn them over, we generally did that year
Warrington v Leeds - This happened in the final

Week 3
St Helens v Leeds - It's up for debate of course, but Leeds were in great form, and have always been able to beat Saints in the final

Week 4
Wigan v Leeds - This happened in the semis anyway

Top 6
Week 1
St Helens v Hull FC - Again just an opinion, think Hull would have had a good crack like
Catalans v Leeds - Happened in week 2 anyway

Week 2
Wigan v Warrington - Just my opinion of course, but they always seem to beat us
St Helens v Leeds

Week 3
Wigan v Leeds - Happened in week 3 anyway

Week 4
Warrington v Leeds - Happened in the final anyway

Top 8 Leeds had to beat Wakefield, Catalans, Wigan and Warrington
Top 6 would be Catalans, St Helens, Wigan and Warrington
Top 5 would be Catalans, Warrington, St Helens and Wigan

So yes it would be slightly harder, playing Saints rather than Wakey, but I'm still pretty confident they would have done it.

Tony Smith is quoted in the Metro newspaper today as saying:

"It doesn't really matter if we finish 1st, 2nd or 3rd there's no real advantage to either"

THAT is how sad a state of affairs we have in the game at the moment.

How the hell can that be right..

Can't find an online link so will take a picture later and pop it on here so nobody accuses me of talking balls, but I thought exactly the same.

Yes as fans we can say and think it, but when coaches of top sides are saying it it does make you wonder WTF the regular rounds are in aid of.

Even if we accept the playoffs are a good thing, surely a good final placing should be something to strive for.

The problem is that with this system a higher finishing place other than top 2 is not necessarily a better one.

Well you would think so, but it appears to me logic plays no part in how the SL is set up and run today. I’ve read a lot of posts, and studied a lot of permutations, but I’m still as confused as I was at the start of it all. I think I’ll just go away and do something really simple like splitting the atom instead.

Indeed....

I've seen it myself and I agree with him.

It's the format of the play offs that is wrong not the concept of having play offs in the first place. There is next to no advantage to finishing 1st in comparison to 4th, Infact a team like us may be better in 4th. Our home record in big games ain't great and the club call is a gimmick that motivates the opposition.

The main advantage finishing fifth gives you under the current system is the "on paper" easiest game of week 1, playing 8th place at home. It's obviously more difficult from there on in but by finishing 5th you get to play a side that may have barely scraped in to the playoffs (every season since the top 8 has been introduced the team that has "qualified" for the playoffs in 8th has at least lost as many as they've won during the weekly rounds), it's effectively a bye.