Please tell me where in my post do i make any of the above statements. I view your opinion with an open mind, hence why i have asked you to explain your logic. nothing more, nothing less.

Based on your last post you are either rooting for a fight or paranoid. Which is it?

1. Well that's all that matters how it reads to YOU.
2. Irrelevant venting.
3. Why would I not deny something that is not my personal opinion?
4. I've told you I honestly don't care if people believe me or not
5. Thanks for your suggestion. I choose to ignore it.
6. I have nothing to prove...to anyone.


Now should I launch into a personal attack on you Cruncher as you seemingly have done on me?

Apologies Tuggles, I posted a reply to the wrong person.

Look chum, it’s pathetically easy for you to keep prevaricating in this way and thereby refusing to deal with the main issue, which has become your apparent desire for Wigan to do badly in the next few years so that you can then say: “Ya boo, I was right all along.”

Now is this or is this not the case? If it is not the case, desist from barging into these threads with your silly prophecies of doom, which are apparently based on nothing more than an extremely odd and misguided loyalty to the former coach, and which, if I may say so, reveal a very deep ignorance on your part with regard to rugby league football.

For your eduction and edification BK. The addition to our knowledge base is neither a prerequisite nor, indeed, included in any part of the definition of the word 'relevance'. You are misusing the word. The fact that this was a piece aout the Wigan coach posted on the Wigan website makes it entirely relevant.

However to address the point of it not adding anything to our knowledge base, I suggest you read it again as it tells us from a first hand perspective (Kearney having worked alongside Mcguire) about his approach and professionalism. What exactly do you want from a news item on a rugby website? The cure for cancer?

For your further education, the punctuation in the following should be:

You do talk some nonsense "pal", perhaps you should go elsewhere and consider that? (note the punctuation btw).

You do talk some nonsense "pal". Perhaps you should go elsewhere and consider that?

Please stop criticising people for things as inconsequential as punctuation. It ill becomes someone who constantly claims the high ground.

Tuggles- to explain my logic here.


I personally think the appointment of MM is a gamble by IL.

In his position I would have gone elsewhere. I don't agree with his decision.

However, the appointment has been made, MM is the coach and of course I will support him as such.

Coupled with this, it's not the fault of MM that he was offered the job, I have no personal opinion of MM, so why on earth would I NOT hope that he does a good job for Wigan?


However. And it's perhaps this point that where the confusion lies. If it turns out to be a failure (and that is very difficult to judge, but presumably 2 Semi Finals are not good enough), then IL has to take the responsibility for that.


Just as he will take the credit if it comes off, he has to take the criticism if it does not.

I am not your "chum", so kindly desist from the personal abuse.

You have your answer. If you choose not to believe it, then that is your problem.

I doubt anyone would ague with that.

The problem with the way you put it is your choice of words, you say it's a gamble which implies there were other choices available that were less of a gamble.

Please give a list of these less of a gamble choices.

Thanks.

I wish I could. There IL has me at a disadvantage.


The one factor that many of you (as this is a BK vs the world thread

) seem to gloss over is this.

I don't know that much about MM. But if he was a "real" star, why hasn't he got an appointment in the NRL?

Are there really 16 other coaches in Oz better than he is?

If so, is that acceptable for Wigan RL? To have a coach who is at BEST the 17th most highly rated coach in Oz?


Now I understand that for some on here it's a capital offence to criticise IL or any of his appointments, but it's just a thought.........

Brett, no need to apologise whatsoever.

But did you reply to the wrong person? or did you read my post questioning your logic and instantly jumped on the soapbox feeling the need to justify your rhetoric?.

For what it is worth, I feel slightly disappointed that you are of the opinion that you are. Whether you opinion lies in a loyalty to BN or a need to undermine IL I guess I will never know.

You have always been a poster that I have agreed with in the past, but I honestly believe that you are being slightly petty in your argument. I will not go so far as to say that you are not a "true" fan of the club because of your views (that would be a ridiculous thing for me to say, I have never met you). But I do think you are showing very little loyalty in the club.

I may be off the mark widely in what I have said here, but this is an opinion I have formed from reading your posts

MM has been offered several first team appointments in Oz and is one of the most sought after coaches, it is a massive coup for us to get him.

He has previously turned down other approaches as he did not think he had finished his apprenticeship, he seems to me to be a very self aware realistic level headed bloke, i dont think the fact he has chosen to give himself the best most rounded education in the game should be used against him.

FWIW

No I was replying to Priestman, not you in that instance.

Re BN/IL - Yes, atm I dislike IL as a person. I think the way he treated BN was shocking (irrespective of my views on BN as a coach), and the main thing he has brought to Wigan RL thus far imo is an unwillingness to spend money on the right players and "spin".

However, that is a different issue.

I'm not sure how much "loyalty" I can/need to show. I go to games, I genuinely hope Wigan win every time they play. I am not going to post swathes of my personal life on here, but I guess I probably am in the "very much a fan" bracket, and have been for many years.

I will, however, not be spoon fed spin. I will make my own mind up on issues and air my views accordingly, be it in the pub, at work, or indeed on here.

If this is the case then it goes to counter my 17th best coach in Oz argument.

Fair enough. Do you know this for a fact?

NOTE. i read this post after "posting" my last post (it can get confusing all this swapping around



Reading what you say above, i better understand your arguement. The only things i can say is that i agree that signing MM is a gamble, but in all honesty what coach would not be a gamble?.

Yes if MM is a total flop (and i do not beleive that he will be) then IL should be in line for a bit of stick. but only after a decent period of time.

I would hate for you to be correct in what you are saying. not becasue i (and others) will be wrong in backing IL, but because it will mean Wigan are not the team i think we could be.

He chose to carry on as assistant till he felt he was ready for it, there were 2 NRL clubs interested in taking him when he agreed to sign for us.

There are a tiny number of outstanding coaches:

Wayne Bennett
Craig Bellamy
Tim Sheens
..........
..........
..........
..........

It's common practice for assistants in the NRL to serve a long apprenticeship, the Bulldogs appointed Kevin Moore as head coach from being Steve Folkes' assistant - and won the Dally M Coach of the year award, with the Bulldogs having a fantastic season (this season)

Nathan Brown had a great season at Hudds after having 5 years at St George were he was considered by many to be a failure.

Whoever you give a coaching job to they are a gamble, and tbh apart from the 3 I listed I don't see anybody that would have been less of a gamble than MM.

Feel sure i have read it on several occasions and he himself has been quoted as saying he is not available for a first team seat until he has finished his current/last contract with the Storm.

I am not sure what not having a first team seat proves anyway. Were people like Wayne Bennett and Jack Gibson not top coaches prior to being appointed, they were simply unknown/waiting for a chance. It does not make someone a poor coach or a worse coach than a current head coach simply because they have not been given or turned down the chance until they felt the time/position was right.

Me too.

Quote ="XBrettKennyX"If this is the case then it goes to counter my 17th best coach in Oz argument. Fair enough. Do you know this for a fact?'" Not the links I was looking for, but proof enough I think. www.news.com.au/couriermail/spor ... 09,00.html www.foxsports.com.au/story/0,865 ... 14,00.html There were other (and better) links but I can't be a*rsed looking for them! I seem to remember he was linked with Souths as well, amongst others.

Quote ="XBrettKennyX"If this is the case then it goes to counter my 17th best coach in Oz argument. Fair enough. Do you know this for a fact?'" Not the links I was looking for, but proof enough I think. www.news.com.au/couriermail/spor ... 09,00.html www.foxsports.com.au/story/0,865 ... 14,00.html There were other (and better) links but I can't be a*rsed looking for them! I seem to remember he was linked with Souths as well, amongst others.

Why should he present you with a fact?

You admit that you dislike IL, and you don't even know him. You quote the 'way he treated Noble' as if it's gospel.

Some folk think Noble was lucky to get the extra year he did. I'd say he was treated pretty well considering he couldn't even get the team fit.

What on Earth are 'facts' in your world?

Why not take the time to find out a bit more about him then?



But its not though. I do it all the time when I think it is justified but unlike some it is never black or white for me. Sometimes he gets things right and other times wrong - in my opinion.

So I can on the one hand say he hasn't handled the way Noble went very well (or the Hock situation for example with no announcement) but on the other I can see things he has done right and while we won't be able to judge if appointing MM is right for a couple of seasons all things considered I can see the logic of going for MM. His CV and reputation are all about doing the things I think Noble failed to do so in appointing MM then IL has IMO made an attempt to directly address these issues.

How many head coaches got the job without being an assistant first? Wigan may not have made a habit of going for assistant coaches to fill the head coach position but it is not unheard of in RL and our last two head coaches who both came as supposedly established top class head coaches have failed.

Dave

Thats the key point Dave.

Noble - Matt Elliot's assistant
Craig Bellamy - Wayne Bennett's assistant
Kevin Moore - Steve Folke's assistant
Steve Folkes - Chris Anderson's assistant
John Monie - Jack Gibson's assistant

the list goes on and on

But I don't think some people will ever be satisfied until we sign all the biggest names in world RL, just as we did - supposedly - back in the late 1980s. (How quickly some fans seem to have forgotten that Graham Lowe and John Monie were not the biggest names in the antipodean game when they came to us; how quickly they seem to have forgotten that we did not assemble a multi-trophy winning side by packing it with Kangaroos).

I'm tired of hearing people insist that they don't expect us to go out and 'buy success' - and then talk as if that's exactly what they expect.

It's highly unlikely that any British club could recruit either a top NRL player or a top NRL coach at the present time. The best we can hope for is to catch these guys on the way down, or, even better, on the way up - which is what we appear to have tried to do with Mike Maguire.

I don't know whether to laugh or cry when I hear Wigan fans being 'cynical' about MM's appointment. Who are they trying to kid - the rest of us or themselves? It's no wonder some Wigan fans come over as being arrogant to non-Wigan fans. This idea that only the very best in the world are good enough for Wigan is laughable in an era when we appear to have fallen so far behind so many other British clubs. It's even more laughable when those who advocate it then bemoan the departure of Brian Noble, who operated so far below the ethos of Wigan in the 80s and 90s that it was almost untrue (not my words, those of a respected Wigan player from that era).

Of course we did, Henderson Gill, Billy McGinty, Neil Cowie, Martin Hall etc were all World famous players before they came to Wigan.

As were Sam Panapa and Ged Byrne. Still, let's not cloud myth with facts, eh?