Most of the constructive comments on this thread have not been negative, all some posters are trying to point out is that is another arrow in your bow to be able to change things if plan A is not working.

I'm fine with how we are playing at the moment. We will win nothing by trying to peak in May. So what if there are areas for improvement, maybe SW has learned some lessons from last year and is preparing the side to hit top form when it really matters. I think we have a great chance of silverware this season.

Good post, and I totally agree. Some people miss the point of a forum and discussion, unless you shout from the rooftops that Wigan are the greatest thing in the world today you're being negative, this in term gives people an excuse to start an argument rather than a discussion.

So, if you are negative, its a discussion, but if someone disagrees with you, its an argument?

People are not being negative in this thread.

Theres a difference in disagreeing with someone compared to having a pop at them by accusing them (or people in general) of being negative. A valid point of disagreement would be how significant Green's absence was. But for example prefacing any opinions on that by accusing people who don't think it would have made a great deal of difference with accusations of negativity isn't a discussion because it has nothing to do with the topic.

Here are my thoughts having re watched the game a couple of times:
- I am not concerned about our ability to score points in the backs as long as Sam is fit. Without him, I can't see us winning the big games;
- we have already shown we have a plan B if the opposition rush up. Blake and Smith broke down Saints by taking the line on or giving short passes when they tried the same thing the week after our wide plays had destroyed Widnes;
- we could have scored at least one other try, from Powell's run and Josh's wonderful break. With our defence 24 points will pretty much always win us the big games;
- this was wonderful preparation for us. We closed out the game in very professional style, compared with the panic which has set in at times over the last 2 years;
- my concerns are with the pack. I think we need bigger props against Leeds and Wire. I would have played Taylor. I also think that Hansen's lack of threat with ball in hand limits one side of the field, as he doesn't ask any questions of anyone. Burke or Hughes will very soon be a better bet;
- people are concerned about us winning things, but with 2 of Wire, the Giants and Leeds out of the semis we could reasonably only have to perform once to win the second most prestigious trophy (which of course makes the down playing of the league where you have to play everyone without any luck of the draw even more absurd). We can certainly do that;
- so, for mine it's not so much a Plan B as getting more out of our pack, which in turn will allow the backs to work their magic.

Is being able to grind out a result, like we did last Sunday, a plan B ?

If someone posts "I hate some of our fans" I would call that argumentative and therefore worthy of a verbal slap down.

Whatever people may think about plans A, B, or even C, i believe that the most crucial point has been made by Apollosghost. If you read many of the books written by top sportsmen and women, mental attitude is a very important factor in sport at the highest level. You can discuss tactics all day long, and they are indeed important, but being in the right frame of mind is absolutely vital. For all of Leeds success, and their achievements over the last few seasons have been tremendous, we are starting to see chinks in their armour. Their pivots are not as effective, Maguire has lost a yard of pace, Sinfield is not as reliable, Burrow is nowhere near as dangerous as once was. Peacock is still a threat, but its more of a mental threat than a physical one than once was, i don't think our young props are as in awe of him as they have been. I don't see them as the threat they once were, and in sport you have to believe that, or you have lost before you step on the pitch.

We have a very well structured attack, and a miserly defense. We have a squad which has flexible parts, and which can function without some, i repeat, SOME, component parts. This team don't have the outstanding players that Leeds have, or that the Wigan teams of the past had, its a product of the modern game, but thats another discussion. What it has is a lot of young players that have bought into the systems we have, and, to my eyes the team spirit is outstanding. Some people like to have a pop at Wane, don't insult people's intelligence by saying you don't, but he is a head coach in his second in his second season, like his charges he is learning, and to my mind has done terrifically well considering the amount of quality players he has lost.

As we move towards the later, and pointy end of the season its going to be very interesting to see how it all pans out. To my mind we have the best squad for the task ahead. Our young halves have more experience, our forwards have been outstanding, and our systems have blown many teams away. You can point to individual games, and i will conceded that this can be used as a counter argument, i would just point to the table, and our last game! Injuries will play a part now for all teams and of course we cannot see into the future. The injury to TL last year was crucial to my mind in deciding where the silverware went. Provided Sam, Smith, Micky Mac and Green stay fit at the pointy end of the season, i believe we have the team to take a clean sweep of the silverware. If they don't, we will still be pretty damn close..

As would i... Some of our fan's annoy me too..

If we have a problem with plan A, B ,C D etc, which teams in Super League do you think would prefer NOT to be in our position at this moment in time.
Top of the league, still in the Cup and the youngest squad in Super League.

I've seen some bad strawman positions in my time but that has got to be one of the worst.

Spot on. The team structure is Wigan's greatest weapon not any one individual. That's why we've barely seen a difference when Green and Smith replaced Finch and Tommy.

But you're of course right - Sam is central to it all and is the one player who if missing leaves us in trouble. No question in my mind we'd have won the playoff against Leeds if he'd have played. God knows what happened in the cup semi - the whole team looked drunk! (just a joke, don't throw a libel accusation at me!)

I don't see what that has to do with the subject of the thread but since you ask I doubt Hull, Hudds and Wire care very much about any of that.

I wonder if Leeds have a plan B?

And this has exactly what to do with the discussion about our attack? Straw man no. 2.

It appears to be crying to the ref via their captain, arguably the worlds best whinger....

It's about the negativity of some of our "fans"
Top of the league, still in the cup and and still some want a dig at Wane.


I don't know, but I'll guess his win / loss ratio is comparable with Maguires, with arguably a weaker squad.

Hunger, Aggression, and Execution.

Why any need for a plan B?

Dave, weren't you a big fan of Brian Noble whilst he was here?
Maybe you would like for us to go back to the 'Win 2 lose 1' & 'Let's not throw the baby out of the bath water' days?

I'm not saying that Wane has got everything 100% spot on but BY CHRIST we have it 100% better now than we did in the Noble days!!!

Straw men are a good thing. They allow you to put together skeleton arguments. Given that this is a discussion as to future structures, straw men are exactly what we need. Perhaps the intended reference is to clutching at straws?
If, as seems eminently possible after Leeds' implsion, we can finish top with 3 games to spare, then that is a position that every club would like to trade with us, as it would allow us to focus on Wembley, say, without worrying about the game before or the 2 afterwards and gear up for the play offs by spelling players. The other teams may not "care" - and I like the certainty that others claim to possess that I can read other teams' minds and guess their motivations - then they ought to. The teams finishing top and second have played I and won the Grand Final far far more often than teams finishing anywhere else. Watching Hull yesterday brought home to me that there are 6 teams other than us who would be formidable opponents on their home patch this year - FC, Catalans, Giants, Leeds, Wire and even Saints. Staying first or second will avoid a nasty trip somewhere.
Back to plan A or B, I am really struggling to see what the case for the doom and gloom is. It seems to be that we have harder games against the better teams, but the style which has seen us win or draw against all of those 6 teams aside from Giants does not work (but how did we win or draw then?) needs adapting in case we happen to lose in due course.
Having had months of doom and gloom over players leaving, including horror at Fielden's going, on the basis of a single decent performance, is this all the straw clutchers have to go on now?

Lets look to other sports, Froch stuck to plan A against Kessler, Kessker tried plan A & B and lost because Froch had the intensity to see out plan A. Nadal & Djokovik win with plan A because when it faulters they increase their intensity to see plan A through. Melbourne storm use the same moves, i.e a structured move, but rotate the players to create a bluff and double bluff scenario. But they still stick to plan A. Last years semi against Leeds would have been won with plan A if that idiot Finch had of kicked for touch instead of the spectacular cross field kick that wasn't on. I have a good recall of that match and we started to throw inside passes in the second half that made inroads into Leeds defence and kept them on the back foot. But mr "experienced" Finch saw an end to that plan. Intensity and sticking to the game plan wins matches, ask Nadal Djokovik, Froch etc

His stupid little kick through at the end was the killer. We kept trying to force the ball when in a winning position though.

I can't wait for the unveiling next Thursday.

In knockout games against top 5 sides:
Maguire - Won 5 Lost 3 - 63%
Wane - Won 1 Lost 2 - 33%

I've included Maguire's WCC loss to St George in that as well.