Or he'll leave the half-backs where they are and bring Burrows on at hooker for Roby. I'd prefer that to Sinfield at hooker, Burrows gave us more zip from the PTB when he came on against Fiji.

I'd prefer Burrow to be honest.

I'm surprised at you Rogues. This isn't Life on Mars, it's 2013. Roby would come on after 20 minutes, at the latest, to replace McIlorum but we would be down to 12 men and MM on his way for a shower. If it was that easy to get at Luke then every team would do it. MM might be harder than your average hooker, but you rarely get a one to one situation to prove who is the best fighter, and his lack of discipline would be manna from heaven to NZ. Luke is very similar to MM but far more skilful & much more controlled these days.

Obviously you see more of Roby and us of MM, but I do think there is a role in the International side for both of them.

Yes aggression only gets you so far as our good friend giraffe has pointed out, but in this day and age a hell of a lot is based around winning the "arm wrestle". If we lose that opening 20 to a side like NZ then we could have Superman at 9 and we'd still lose by 50 (not sure if Pat Richards has played hooker before

)

Someone like MM gives you that chance to get on top after 20 by disrupting the opposition and allowing you to dictate the pace of the game. That is when Roby would be dangerous off the bench.

Obviously it's all opinion, but that is mine.

I understand completely where you're coming from and you make valid points. I just feel using McIlorum solely to add some beef in that opening 20 would be a waste of a spot when in all reality, having Roby in from the start doesn't put us at any disadvantage compared to McIlorum being there.

If you were Isaac Luke, who would you rather face and why? I'm with Conroy on this for the very reasons we have both stated.
Nobody is saying Roby shouldn't play, it's just what is better for England that is obviously dividing opinion.

We could have exactly the same discussion regarding Westwood and Farrell.

I would go:

Tomkins
Charnley
Watkins
Cudjoe
Hall
Sinfield
Widdop
Graham
McIlorum
Hill
S Burgess
Westwood
O'Loughlin

Roby
G Burgess
Ferres
Mossop (Scott Taylor would have got in the squad above him for me)

I would look to move S Burgess into the front row on occasions and have a pack of Burgess Roby Burgess Ferres Westwood Lockers. If the Burgess boys could get a quick PTB then Roby could cause havoc.

But it's not as simple as that, is it? The kiwis have a big pack who Burrow might manage to run around if he gets a quick ptb. Also, what about support play? If one of the forwards makes a break they're far more likely to find Burrow backing up than McIlorum. I'm not trying to have a go at McIlorum btw he's had a great season, I can just see pros and cons to both players

You're still talking like:
a) hookers spend the game in some sort of individual face-off with each other; and
b) Isaac Luke would be scared of MM for some reason; a player he's probably never heard of let alone fears.

I would strongly suggest that Isaac Luke, and indeed all the Kiwis, would rather face any other hooker than James Roby, given that he is the best England has. They're probably more concerned about winning the game.

Isaac luke is one of New Zealands most influential players, a lot of the good stuff they do starts with him. Someone has to stop him. If Roby can do it, no problem, but someone has to be given that job, just as someone has to be given the job of "looking after" SBW.
Hookers do come up against each other a lot during the game, probably more than any other position, just look at the dummy half runs and marker tackles to see how often the hookers are in the top five for these stats.

I just hope that whoever plays does their job. We should find out tomorrow just how good this England pack is. Here's hoping for a win and I don't care who scores the points, who makes the tackles, I just want a win.

I wonder if fans of NRL sides whinge like we do over the Aussie side. I wonder if Manly and Melbourne fans argue over Cherry-Evans and Cronk? Would Thurston and the other QLD players get booed in Sydney?

that worked a treat on the 2010 GF when MM started instead of Riddell

Of course it did, but our Saints "friends" can't see it.
It's horses for courses, and I would have gone with the Mickey Mac / Roby combination. However it's not going to happen (unless MM gets back from the Dylan concert) so let's get behind the England team no matter which club they play for.

According to McNamara, MM has a back injury.

Taken from Sporting Life site.

"Wigan hooker Michael McIlorum was another absentee from England's final training run at Wembley after being left out of the team to face the Kiwis.

"With Mickey it's different," McNamara said. "He's got a back injury and had a scan in Liverpool yesterday. He's back with one of our medical staff, Chris Brookes, in Greater Manchester now.

"We need to get that back issue sorted out for Mickey. That's very, very important.

"We're hopefully it will be sorted out and he'll recover."

And yet he wrote on his twitter how he was disappointed with the coach's decision not to select him.

Inlgis, Gallen?..actually every decent RL player has physicality and aggression? ....

To be fair us Wigan fans started the booing when Lee Smith & Danny Maguire where targeted by the Aussies in 2008(??) I remember being in the south stand booing the pair of them, defensively they were a disgrace and subsequently got subsituted. Its no wonder Leeds fans boo Tomkins, but the difference is he has never played as poor as what those two clowns did that day...

Those attributes will only get you so far ON THEIR OWN, which is quite obviously what I meant.

Running will only get you so far.... as long as its forwards towards the try line. Aggression is 99% in RL, pussys play wendyball

That is such a moronic, blinkered view on rugby league. Aggression is 99%??? Really???

So a really angry, aggressive, physically-intimidating no.6 with little speed, skill, vision or creativity is more valuable than Jonathan Thurston?

Have you ever tried running at a 18 stone man? You need aggression its no delicate matter breaking or making a tackle....

Didnt it take a massive haymaker from JT to take down Ryan Hall in the 4 nations a couple of years back???

Yes I've played rugby league for over 20 years now. I have never ever said that you do not need aggression. However you need a lot more besides and to suggest that Rugby league is 99% aggression would lead people to assume you know very very little about the sport.

OK let see the team who plays with 98% aggression tomorrow try to win

Nice one. I'm just going to leave you to carry on making yourself look silly now. Night night.