Well that was like a pre season friendly, bloody awful, god knows how much % improvement needed or NZ will wallop us next weekend !

Either this is a wind up, or perhaps the daftest post I have ever read.

How do people think Sam has played? He obviously came into the WC with a lot of hype after his record breaking transfer, and the competition has placed him alongside the Slaters, Haynes and Inglis' of the world.

He hasn't looked so good thus far imo. A quiet tournament.

As he is working with a poor 6/7 combo, he has done ok for me....

I think Sams competition has decreased by one, hasn't Billy Slater aggravated a knee injury thats he's carried all season? The Aussies will need to rely on his poor replacement Greg Inglis....oh wait a minute...

He has been average at best , improvement needed , whoever plays 6/7 .

It's becoming clear that Sam needs to be utilised properly by his coach to be effective, which is not good from his perspective as it means that he can't just slot into any side and work his magic - as NZW may find to their cost (and if people think the New Zealanders are wowed purely by reputation, look at the way so many of them scorn the memory of Denis Betts and Andy Platt, both of whom they expected a lot more of than they got).

From an England POV, McNamara doesn't have the first clue how to use Sam, but then he doesn't have a clue anyway. We can't just pretend that his selection of the England halves isn't a much bigger problem. This is currently like a ball and chain around our team's collective ankle. Sinfield is an average SL player bigged up to a ludicrous degree by the Sky monkeys (so they take their share of the blame as well). Even in a training romp like last night, he was virtually anonymous. As for Chase, he is a complete individualist who always does his own thing and contributes nothing to the sort of structured attack you need at this level.

And yet, we've got Widdop and Burrow on the sideline. It's bewildering and infuriating in equal measure.

Believe it or not as a Leeds fan I am not one of Sinfield's biggest fans. However to state that he was anonymous last night is unfair. He made his fair share of tackles and linked well with his forwards. It always makes me laugh how club loyalty comes in to international team selection. Tomkins is not playing well because of the half backs who don't happen to come from Wigan! For me McIllouram offered nothing but then again he doesn't play for Leeds. Neither did Farrell, neither did Chase. We tend to see what suits out club preferences.

I agree with you that MM didnt add anything, but I feel that he only got the gig because of the injury to Burrow.
Again Faz isnt World Cup semi standard either - but is Ablett ? SamT has done all that he can, but is suffering because we appear only have 2 plans. Either give it to a Burgess and see if they can steam roller in, or give it to Sam and see if he can create a try for the backs.
For Wigan he hardly ever kicks and chimes in and out of the line when there is an opportunity. For England he appears to be trying to do too much. Much of this is down to the fact that we dont have a balanced pair of halves who can kick us around the park and create gaps for the centres/2nd rows.
There is where the coach has to shoulder the responsibility of not having a system that offers options over the park, or picking players that work together as a good unit.

He was no were near MOM but i don't think he had a poor game as he did set up two tries.

Sinfield is a good player but never a number 7, Chase offers no structure as others have previously said this is the main issue with what could be a very god England team.

But you have been critical of all but Sinfield.... I don't think many would say he was anonymous, just not the appropriate choice when making the best use of Tomkins, who i have said has been "Ok", but nothing more..

Did it make you laugh when you did exactly the same thing just then?

In the post you responded to, I stated clearly that I'd have preferred to see Burrow and Widdop in the halves, neither of whom are Wiganers. I also made it quite clear that Tomkins, to his own disadvantage (and his teammates), only performs well when his team is organised to accommodate him. I guess you just forgot about those bits.

That Sinfield tackled and linked up is pretty well the very least I'd expect from an international halfback. You say you're not Sinfield's biggest fan, but you won't criticise him, even though the guy is supposed to be our main pivot, and yet last night - against one of the worst teams in the tournament - he was virtually invisible. Pull the other one.

Out of the 2 halfbacks I would say chase has been the worst but because he looks flash people think he's good.he doesn't pass it as often as he should. He bombed a 3 on 1 overlap because he tried to be a show off! Against New Zealand they could of well caught that interception and gone the full length.sinfield never does anything spectacular but also never does anything wrong.maybe sinfield should start throwing it as far as he can and also throw a few no look passes to look good.

The quicker they offer the job to Wane the more optimistic I will be. For me Goulding should be partnering Charnley as they have an understanding plus Goulding has put him in for countless try's all year.

I'd have had Smith and Brough at 6 + 7.

Cruncher you are missing my point. Like I said you see what you want to see as far as your own team players go on international duty. Tomkins is going ok for me but SOL was my MOM yesterday. Out of the two halves Chase is by far the worse one. Sinfield for me did ok and did w hat was asked of him. I personally don't know who else could be picked ahead of him. Burrow certainly is not the answer and from what I have seen both watching the NRL and the internationals neither is Widdop. I'm sure you would be banging the drum for Smith but he isn't even in the squad. FWIW I don't think the coach has got the structure right and is not using the players he has to their strengths. As for the other poster who said I didn't criticize Sinfield . Well that might be a first for me mate.

i like Darryl very much but in fairness theres 3 or 4 better centres for Mcnamara to choose from, your statement just says 'i support wigan' 'i see nobody else other than wigan players'

The thing is centre/wing is the hardest position to defend on the pitch, you need confidence in your 3/4 partner and a good understanding when attacking. Its a ready made partnership.

On the 'I support Wigan' thing, that's too bad

I've never once mentioned Smith. But you decide to talk as if I have !!!!

For that last time - from my POV at least - this is not about getting Wigan players into the team. To be fair, it's you who seems to be determinedly asserting your own skipper should be in there.

That you think Widdop couldn't do a better job than Sinfield is someone talking with blinkers on.

FWIW, I really, really hope he proves me wrong this weekend.

My suspicion is that Kevin Sinfield didn't want Danny Brough anywhere near this England squad and used his influence with the coach. To be fair Brough has had a career of fits and starts and he's only really done well consistently this season.

But here's the thing both Brough and Matty Smith outperformed Sinfield and Chase this season. But having made up his mind to keep Sinfield as captain he wouldn't accomodate another kicker in the squad for some reason. I find this baffling. Look at Australia they have kickers all over the place. Cameron Smith doesn't insist on being the only kicker.

As I say it's only a hunch but I think McNamara has created problems for himself by going with Sinfield so early and so publicly. If Sinfield gets injured early on on Saturday who will do the kicking on the 5th tackle? Because I don't think Chase can do it, and that leaves Sam. Sinfield is a good skipper and does more than his share of tackling, but that tends to cover his inadequacies with the ball. Chase is caught in three minds every time he gets the ball. His job should be to get the ball out to Ryan Hall as quickly as possible because he has been England's most potent weapon and that is with Chase and Cudjoe inside him, neither of whom particularly want to give him the ball!!!!

On the debate re Sinfield he is an excellent goal kicker and as a captain he is also good but isn't the problem simply there are better players running around in SL (and the NRL if you include Widdop) in every position he can play in?

I don't know what it is about national teams in England but its the same in soccer. Players tend to be shoehorned into the side out of position because they are deemed essential for some reason. It never really works.

The selection of Sinfield at a very early stage has become a big problem for England, and showed McNamara's immaturity in his role. It's not as if Sinfield is the best player going anyway, as you rightly point out.

I also agree totally with your comments about poor positional selections on the whole. It seems to have been the bane of GB and England sides. Didn't we once have Hanley playing on the wing?

You sometimes get the feeling that GB or England coaches are so fazed by their choice of players - mainly because they've never been anywhere near this range of talent at club level - that they simply respond by trying to cram them all in anywhere they can.

But Sinfield has been ludicrously bigged up by the Sky muppets over the years. Comments like "so is he human after all" when he misses a penalty seem utterly preposterous given his extremely average performances in this tournament. But then - hey, a Yorkshire panel named him Golden Boot winner. Perhaps nothing about this should surprise us.

Sorry Cruncher I was responding to someone else about the Smith comment.
Smith is not an option as he wasn`t even in the squad.
As I said before I am not one of Sinfields biggest fans but do think he has the mental capacity to lead a team as proven in winning a number of big game finals.
Everyone who plays in a team captained by him sing his praises and that includes the England team.
As far as thinking Widdop couldn`t do a better job than Sinfield. Then yes I would stick by that as Widdop has done nothing so far to prove me wrong both this year and in the past.
For you to say Sinfield was invisable against France proves to me you are the one with the blinkers on as most of the press, the neutrals and the Ozzie press sang his praises.
But there you go. Even I have to eat my words sometimes as one of Sinfields biggest critics.

For all the slagging off of sinfield ( ignore me I don't watch the ESL other than Wigan games ) Most Kiwi fans don't like what they see from him.

His Kicking game we're just not used too , he did a few very tricky Kicks to split Slater and Morris that the Kiwis would struggle with.

He also looks confident and Authoritive in his decisions , I was hoping he would be some ambivalent dud on your fifth tackle plays.

He might not be as good as some of the Geniuses GBR and England have fielded in the past but he looks trouble to me.

Is it a case of CLub comp impressions Bias of internationals ?

Like I say I dunno you guys see him week in week out , sometimes that colours the vision though.

Take Matulino in the Kiwis , I hear the commentary rating him highly and read a few English posts rating him , he plays for my club team and this year he has been rubbish , so I'm finding it hard to see what others are talking about.

By the Way Brough who is everyones preferred half may well have outplayed Sinfield ( well he must have because he's man of Steele ) has been a bit of an up and down half in the WC for mine.

I like his Kicks...some of his passes and Option taking has been rubbish.

I'd rather face that form than What I've seen from the much maligned Sinfield

Chase dropped from the 19-man squad for the Kiwi game.

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Widdop has been brought in, but where he'll play and whether he'll play from the bench is an open question.

Micky Mcllorum and Rangi Chase are both left out of the 19 man squad to meet NZ on Saturday.

Squad.


Carl Ablett (Leeds Rhinos, Hunslet Parkside)

George Burgess (South Sydney Rabbitohs, Dewsbury Moor)

Sam Burgess (South Sydney Rabbitohs, Dewsbury Moor)

Rob Burrow (Leeds Rhinos, Featherstone Lions)

Josh Charnley (Wigan Warriors, Wigan St Patricks)

Leroy Cudjoe (Huddersfield Giants, Newsome Panthers)

Liam Farrell (Wigan Warriors, Wigan St Patricks)

Brett Ferres (Huddersfield Giants, Smawthorne Panthers)

James Graham (Canterbury Bulldog, Blackbrook)

Ryan Hall (Leeds Rhinos, Oulton Raiders)

Chris Hill (Warrington Wolves, New Spring Lions)

Lee Mossop (Wigan Warriors, Hensingham)

Sean O’Loughlin (Wigan Warriors, Wigan St Patricks)

James Roby (St Helens, Blackbrook)

Kevin Sinfield (captain) (Leeds Rhinos, Waterhead)

Sam Tomkins (Wigan Warriors, Wigan St Patricks)

Kallum Watkins (Leeds Rhinos, Latchford Albion)

Ben Westwood (Warrington Wolves, Normanton Knights)

Gareth Widdop (Melbourne Storm, Kings Cross)