So what you've literally just said is "he's a valuable member of the squad"... So in other words a useful squad player...

Thanks for agreeing with me.

Also I don't want Cordner - Bateman is better

If you want to twist a regular member of the 17 for the past 5 seasons (and usually a starter) into a squad player then you do that.

So having 4 forwards around him +2 stone heavier doesn’t count for jack Shiite then
Bateman added to our current squad for me adds very little if anything without some better props. If we are the top SL team we can’t have Farrell and Bateman in the second row
I don’t care for middles I want props who can do at least 60 minutes and aren’t pumped up centres

We'll have the best back row in the league next year. Yes we need better props but I don't know why that means you shouldn't have top players in other positions. I'd be going with Havard at loose next year to beef us up a bit.

What with 2 or maybe 3 13 stone back rowers?

What on earth has Havard demonstrated to even suggest he can play 13?
He’s a prop. A decent prospect but never a 13 in the memory of man
Oh I forgot he’s a middle. Sorry Grimmy but that’s total Shoite

Loose forward is pretty much the same position as prop these days for a lot of teams. Why do you think we see Thompson, Graham, Cuthbertson, LMS all run out at loose? The game has moved on from the days when the Loose Forward was more of a third halfback. You do realise Havard has already played three games for us at loose this year, with Partington playing another three?

It’s part of the reason why the game has gone backwards
You can have Havard at 13 I’ll have SOL or Andy Farrell it god forbid Hanley
Havard is a prop
Havard has never been nor ever will be a 13. This middle shoite is just an excuse for poor and lazy coaches
LMS as a 13??????? A nobody who good luck to the lad had made a living out of the game

Alright let's sign Ellery Hanley in his prime then. I forgot that was an option, a great point well made.

I’ll Let you keep middles and I will keep props, second rowers and a loose forward
Middles are for lazy coaches and coaches with no faith in their players
It’s a game of 13 individuals
In your future there won’t be any Andy Farrell’s
That’s the primise of my argument
The game is simple
It’s 13 individuals versus 13 where a guy needs his teammates when he can’t cope
It needs specialists in their areas to make this happen

The top props in the NRL average over 150 m per game, in a much tougher comp. Jason Taumalolo (admittedly, a freak) averages over 200! And in a relatively poor side, too, who did not make the top eight.I find it hard to understand why we can't find props who will do similar in SL.

Those top props, of course, include the un-crocked Burgess that Souths wisely kept.

Trying to think of how French can get his hands on the ball more I did think of putting him at 13 with zak at 1. I prefer a ball playing 13 like you, but with our pack as light as it is we ideally need a 3rd prop there otherwise we'll get bullied even more.

They are all lazy sods who think they are all ball-playing 13s.

I think all but 2 of our 'props' have been played at 13 and they all suddenly think they are Sean O'Loughlin.

Very good but we don't have an Andy Farrell, and I don't think there are many (if any) players of that mould in the game now, it's moved on by requiring all forwards to have an element of ball handling to their game, and the loose having to take on more of the workload making the hard yards. It's not exciting but it's effective.

Realistically your options at loose next year are:

- Bateman, Farrell, Smithies - none of which are the ball player you want, and they're not going to help our size problem
- A player you would consider a prop - my suggestion because it helps make up for our lack of size
- A non-marquee signing - I can't think of anyone in the mould you are looking for, particularly not a player who wouldn't be a marquee

To be fair, they calculate meters gained differently in the NRL. They calculate it from where the ball carrier gets the ball, where as we only count meters gained, I think. Post contact meters is probably a better barometer for judging go forward when it comes to NRL forwards.

We don't have an Andy Farrell because the game sees a ball playing forward as a luxury versus a middle and it's easier to coach a "middle"
How about Pearce-Paul for the future?
How about this season trying Hastings there?

Those are false figures. They count the metres from the point the player catches the ball, we count the meters gained over the advantage line. Your comparing oranges with apples.

With the evolution of the full back role, there is no need to have an extra pivot at 13 anymore. It's nothing to do with lazy coaches.
Farrrell would still be a back rower in the modern game, as would SOL if he came through now, as their physical attributes are suited to that position.
Hanley would still be a centre or a stand off now, as he was in his prime.

Why have we retained SOL then?
He patently cannot play regular minutes nor be considered for selection on a regular basis.

It could be argued that he was a loose forward in his prime. He played in that position for both Wigan and in the NRL.

To be fair to the club I think they have tried to rectify the matter by signing Burgess, Bullock, Clark and Singleton, it simply hasn't paid dividends to date. Bullock is now proving his worth and Singleton has yet to make an appearance. Clark is a squad player at present and the less said about the Burgess situation the better, I hope he goes on to prove everyone wrong, including me.

OK I take the point about NRL stats being calculated differently, but the evidence of your eyes is there.Anyone watching Week 1 of the NRL Finals saw props making metres like they should. Just compare the twins, for a start!

I do think props are a problem but in the last Grand Final we won our front row was Flower, Navarette, Sutton and Clubb. Is that significantly better than what we have now?

In 2016 we had Flower, Crosby, Tautai, Nuuausala and Sutton. A mixture of average, young and useless I'd say.

We did have Bateman making yards and Gelling and Sarginson were meter eaters in the backs but it does make me think Wane was getting more out of what he had.

The intensity you'd expect in a semi final was clearly missing on Saturday.

With Singleton coming we could see improvement but it will be the attitude that makes the difference imo. Our backs can score but not if we're playing the whole game in our half.

How long have we been discussing the need for a couple of 'sh¡thouse' forwards. Five years? Longer?

Our back line would have a field day with a pack that eats metres (along with a half back place kicker with half a brain).

Said this years ago, I said this only a couple of years ago and now I'm finding myself saying it again..... If only we had a couple of Craig Smith type props we'd be laughing.

I've been banging on about how we should have made a big offer to Wakefield for Fifita only for him to sign a three year deal in 2019. We should have pinched him a year earlier.... Hell, we should have identified and targeted him prior to his arrival at Wakefield.

Instead for years we've messed around with inferior props... Pettybourne, Tautai, Clubb, Flower, Frank Paul ping pong ball and now Burgess (probably missed a few off which goes to show how memorable they have been).

The recruitment at prop has been poor but the only real defence I could offer the club is that not many other clubs have signed top prop forwards these last couple of years. Saints had Walmsley and Thompson already, Wire had Hill and Cooper and so on. The big mistake for me was the club not backing Wanes wish to sign Liam Watts back in 2018. They should’ve done whatever was necessary to make that happen. Had they done so, I doubt we’d have wasted the money we have on Burgess and all of a sudden your front row looks so much better if you have a four of Watts, Havard, Bullock and Flower for example.