To be fair, they were much better against us than that toothless display.

Perhaps the effort they put in against us meant they couldn't keep it up the week after?

Apologies for veering off topic but how close to the edge of your seat where you on Thursday watching Hudds v Cas, especially first half? The very fact that you use the highest scoring draw in SL history as your justification surely shows it to be the exception that proves the rule?

That's a fair point JJ

I Think Super League is more entertaining - but it certainly isn't better than the NRL.

Well that was bloody fantastic last night.... Not.
No chance this team will make the four, if ever you have seen an average team that was one last night, middle to bottom table awaits us can't wait.

Actually, on the NRL, notwithstanding all the doom and gloom talk about Superleague, I reckon the NRL is at a bit of a low ebb at the moment. Most of the superstars who've dominated it in recent years have either gone (Sam B, J. Hayne) or ageing (JT, Billy Slater, Cooper Cronk, Cam Smith). I watched the Raiders game the other day and SL stalwarts Josh Hodgson and Soliola looked very much at home and comfortable (perhaps we could have done with either of them!). Of course the NRL still has the mighty GI, and there's talent coming through with the likes of Cherry-Evans, Shaun Johnson, but I don't think that historically the standard is that high at the moment. Another example: no dis-respect to him at all, but I thought Pat Richards, despite his excellent kicking, was frankly too old and slow for a successful return to the comp. That that hasn't been the case perhaps says more about the comp than it does about him.

Do you think that Saints were ever that avarage last season then?

Saints were average for most of last season. Plus didn't have their half-back.

Oh...

Actually quite positive on last night. Defence was generally solid, attack was fine until about 10 yards out. That final play just didn't quite come off more often than not sadly. Think we'll be there come the end of the season.

Not a cats chance in hell if SW continues with Powell and Smith at half back.
You can have SOL and Flower back but with no half back worthy of the name and two centres who don't even know their wingers exist top 4 rugby it isn't.
I'm still waiting for the new style of rugby that SW suggested we would see but presently I'm seeing very very low quality more aligned to the bottom four.
I thought long and before posting this but last night confirmed that this is our overdue season of transition due to the magnitude of changes in the team.
Hope I'm wrong but can only see a drubbing at Leeds next week.
We are trying to play the same style of rugby but with significantly inferior players at the moment.

Difference being you have your first choice full back, halves and hooker playing......

We were playing very entertaining rugby indeed early doors until the injuries hit in the key positions.

...and we are missing our captain and best player...

That's only 1 player though.

If your attacking game can't function without one injury prone back rower, I'd say that your issues are bigger than I had thought.

To dismiss O'Loughlin as "one injury prone back rower" is a bit silly.

Along with probably James Roby, he is the best player in Super League. Any team would miss that sort of quality.

We have struggled to replace Sam Tomkins and now we have lost Blake Green. The team is of course, adjusting to life without two of our three creative influences from the double season. Losing Lockers this early in the season makes that transition harder.

I'm not sure why teams aren't expected to struggle when their best player is out injured. I mean, if we didn't struggle, no doubt you'd similarly dismiss him by saying "he's not that good, you can play without him!"

As has been noted elsewhere O'Loughlin is probably three players in one, such is his influence on the team.

Sorry, I'm not dismissing him - he's a fabulous player (those with long memories will recall I held that view when it was far from unanimous on here amongst Wigan fans!)

My point is that if you can have a first choice 1/6/7/9 on the pitch, but contend that they aren't firing because SOL is missing, then I'd say the problem is less the absence of SOL and more the people in the 1/6/7/9 shirts.

You compare him to Roby and I agree that is a good comparison in terms of importance to the respective sides.

However, if we were missing Roby but had Lomax/Burns/Walsh/Lance at 1/6/7/9 I don't think we'd be talking about us struggling to post points - that was more my point.

Correct me if I'm wrong but IIRC Royce Simmonds lost his job after 4 defeats, all without Roby. As soon as Roby was fit, you started winning again under Rush. I always thought Royce was unlucky in that respect. You relied heavily on Roby and it cost him his job.

Excellent point - why did we struggle without Roby? We had inexperienced and insufficiently capable players in the halves Lomax/Gaskell/Wheeler.

And that is my point regarding Wigan - it's not the fact that SOL is missing, it's the fact that those left behind, despite being first choice, don't have enough about them to cope without him.

Incidentally though, Roby played in the first two of the 4 match losing streak that cost Royce his job.

Which is why I for one advocated the signing of someone like Brough, Carney, Campese for this season.

We got there in the end!

bump........how many of the 69 doubters have changed their mind

we will be champions again

Ha! Good point. Come on everyone - own up!

I voted yes. Way too many people overreact on here.

I voted yes, but as i said, it's a long season....

As for overreactions, do you really think so??

I'll stick with what I said on page 2. With a lot of players back and more to come our depth is there for all to see. Stay injury free and we will be fine but there's already quite a scrap going on for those places (Leeds apart for the moment) and it's great to see. Also, with Leigh's recent performance confirming their quality I can't wait to see the Middle 8 comp.