Still not the same. Kyle was our first choice scrum half. Our next scrum half is presently playing in the under 18s. Kyle was made an excellent offer but he wanted to play Union. If he wants to play Union there is nothing we can do about it. In the meantime we have a plethora of young stand offs - Gaskell, Lomax and Wheeler to name the oldest (plus Pryce of course who isn't a young player by anyone's measure) - but no young scrum halves ready for the first team. We are in a position of this being too early for our next talent. Lance has been offered the no.7 but he is being brought in for his versatility. Royce Simmons wants four halves to call on, which I think is wise. If Lomax develops as a no.7 then he will take over but he's very raw in the position having played in all backline positions bar scrum half previously.

The same applies to James Graham. We offered him the best deal we've ever made a player but he wants to go to the NRL so there is nothing that can be done there. But our next potential props are too young - Joe Greenwood has found himself named as a prop in the squad this week but he is 18 and actually a second rower. He and others we have may well blossom within the next few years but meanwhile we have a hole to fill for next season and the only way to do that is by importing.

None of us want to import. Saints fans have really bought into the young players and we have been very impressed with most of them. But we have two urgent requirements that at present cannot be filled by our young players: scrum half and prop forward. I know that young players will fill those spots once they are ready to do so. It took James Graham a season or two to become a regular feature in the team. I would expect the same to be the case for any young players we bring through in those positions.

I still don't see how our situation in this regard is the same as letting young potential go in order to bring in imports.

Why did you bring in Finch instead of promote one of your own?

Nope.... Not obtuse.... THICK!! The point is who you are replacing them with, and what would be said if we did the same.

again you are choosing to ignore what he said. Last year, we lost 5 imports brought in 3 and promoted 2 players. We got slated fro bringing in the import. You have lost a British player and brought in an import, and may do with Graham. Can you see it now?

the answer to your question is he replaced Riddell as our halves werent ready in the 20's like you are saying yours arent.

If you want to get into a d1ck measuring contest about who has given up the most imports and imported the most British players then you will lose as the facts state that we have fewer foreign players than you do.

We have Flannery, Perry, Puletua, Soliola and Meli (who actually doesn't count on anything because he's been with us too long). That's it. Of the three players we brought in for this season, two were British (Shenton and LMS), one Australian (Perry). At the end of this season, Flannery is out of contract. Lance will replace him. We will have to increase our imported number by one if TP stays because we have lost Graham but are unable to replace him locally at present and the other players are still in contract. However, if TP goes then we won't have to increase our number of foreign players.

Oh, and for information, of our present squad of 33 players, 22 are locally grown.

I thought you were having a discussion about this rather than a d1ck measuring contest. My bad. I should have known better on the Wigan board!

again you have ignored the fact and spouted off. Like we said we released 5 foreigners and brought in 3 and saints fans were calling us every name under the son for not giving the youngsters a chance. yet you feels its fine for saints to do....read what you post hypocrite.

How can you have a d1ck measuring contest with a bint?

What the fook are you on about?

We have only five foreign players in our team and yet you are prattling on about Wigan releasing five foreigners (our total) while bringing in three as some sort of marker in your favour? And somehow we are doing the same as you because we have only five foreign players in a squad of 33 including 22 locally grown players? How on earth are we doing the same as you if you let five go but still imported three? How many have you got now? Seven? Eight? Nine?

And again, why did you bring in Finch rather than promote one of your own?

Read the thread.....We are saying last year we brought in foreign players and were bombarded by Saints fans for it. Keeping up still? Although the fact was we brought in 3 and released 5. So...you have released an English player and brought in a foreigner and have been linked to more to replace Graham and TP if he decides to leave.

Can you now get your head around it? We brought in Finch to replace Riddell for experience in a weak position for us.

Missing the point again arent you?

Some Saints fans, obviously including you, slate Wigan for replacing players with Aussies and do not listen to the reason why.

We are NOT moaning about you doing it we are just laughing at the fact that now you have to you'll have to eat some humble pie and accept that you probably shouldnt have whinged about us doing it.

And Finch was brought in because it was expected that Deacon would retire and in case you hadnt noticed we have a 21 year old half (albeit playing fullback) just come through and lighting up the league and the others arent quite ready yet. Sound familiar? Why have you signed a foreigner rather than promote from within? BECAUSE THEY AINT READY!

Why is this so hard for you to understand?!

I love it when saintsfan talks dirty!

You can come and measure mine anytime but make sure you bring a big enough ruler and not the standard 12 inch ruler

No, we haven't! We haven't released either Jammer or Kyle Eastmond. They have chosen not to renew their contracts. TP's contract is also up. He has been offered a two year deal. He will either take it or leave it. We have yet to find out. All three have been offered deals by Saints. WE HAVEN'T RELEASED ANY OF THEM!

So, once again, the situation is NOT the same because we haven't released those players. They have chosen not to renew.

You are really not getting this are you....

We would get more sense out of him in your avatar picture

I like my avatar pic, shows my more feminine side.....

He is a she mate

Matty Smith signed with Salford. That was his choice. No idea about Jamie Ellis. Or Bryn Hargreaves. Or thingy at Cas or Paul Johnson at Wakey. They could have been released or not wanted to re-sign. McManus said recently we let a few players go to fund the Kyle Eastmond offer so it might have been that. Or it might not. I'm not privy to the detail of contract negotiations; only what is released in the press or on the Saints site, same as most fans.

On the issue of Jamie Ellis: he's been great for Leigh, but that is at Championship level. He might not have turned out so well in the Superleague. However, he only played two first grade games for us and then disappeared off the radar. I suspect Mick Potter liked instant world classness or something because he only played Lee Gaskell twice last season and then dropped him, even though we had a halfback crisis for a third of last year. Simmons gave Lee Gaskell a few weeks and he began to really grow as a player, but now he has broken his ankle and so can't play for another month.

you can probably think up to 3 but then have to count out loud to go any further , i'll get you going

Mike Cooper Wembley winner
Rhys Evans
Rhys Williams
Tyrone Mcarthy Wembley winner
Matty Blythe
Lee Mitchell.....

and you cant go saying this "first 17 " rubbish...! what team has ever played the same 17 for every game of the season.

oh yeah......If you'd also like to rubbish our youth system while our under 20's sit top of the league and our under 18s are undefeated feel free.

Nice angle,but how many of the above mentioned players would get into your 'strongest 17' ?

1 maybe?

As for having great u20 and u18 squads it means nothing until they start to filter through to the 1st team, assuming they do and you don't go shopping again.

6 very unexperienced players there, lets be honest its not good enough for a top club.

Wigan have:

Sam, Charnley, Joel, Prescott, McIlorum, Hansen, Farrell, O'Loughlin, Mossop, Goulding, Tuson all who are regulary making our starting 17. not forgetting players like Marsh, Crosby, Mellor, Davies, O'Carroll, Hock all with first team experience.

Saints also have a similar amount and Leeds.

Warringtons is getting better yeah but its píss poor at the moment for a top club.

course I can, I did too. The only reason you have Riley in th first 17 is because you signed Joel after the squads were released. So in effect you have 2.