Not convinced about Patten (although I may be being influenced by someone who played alongside him) but I've always thought we let Mellor go a little to quickly. Depending on cost, he could be a good shout.

If someone offers new information or something which I didn’t consider I’m happy to discuss and debate; does that mean I have to change my opinion? Not at all.
Look at how you deal with people who have a difference in opinion ‘you’re wrong’ is how you deal with opposite opinions.
And then try to manipulate facts and figures to support your point (as it kills you to learn someone doesn’t agree with you)
You chose to mention coaches making Lockers a captain; when did we discuss leadership? Is always the captain the best player? No. This is also doesn’t consider the landscape of the team at the time etc.
I’ve purposely avoided posting Batemans successes (which are easy accessible on the Wigan website) because I can read between the lines, I can identify when someone wants to have a discussion or just bicker and argue.

Case in point, look at your last line, when did I say people should accept what I say? I haven’t. It’s just my opinion.

Already I’m disappointed with myself; for getting into this when I shold have just avoided engaging with you.

FWIW; Lockers is my current fav Wigan player. Love the man. But I do believe Bateman was better age for age.

Gildart is a far better player than O'Loughlin or Bateman at 21 (in the centres).

Then quote the like for like facts that support your argument then I have something concrete to debate instead of just taking the "this is my opinion, therefore it's right" line. I've offered you concrete information to disprove your theory and you've offered nothing but your opinion in return. That's why I said you were wrong. If you don't think you are, show me why.

You do realize every criticism you just levelled at me also applies to you, don't you? You want your opinion to go unchallenged and when someone has the temerity to disagree with you you're "disappointed with yourself" for engaging with them. Why is that? I haven't insulted you or even been impolite. I've merely offered an opposing opinion. This is a forum. I'd link you to a definition of what that means but you'd only think me condescending or something similar but suffice to say that is what these boards are for. Why would you take it personally if someone takes the time to enter a discussion with you?

Back to the discussion in hand. I mentioned the captain point because, it disproves your "only became the player we know later" point as he was regarded highly throughout his career. You don't necessarily give the captaincy to your best player but you sure as hell don't give it to one of the worst! By and large it is given to the players regarded among the best and, yes, very often to the best. Look at his rivals for the captaincy at international level if you want further proof.

Look, you're entitled to your opinion (even a wrong one!

), of course you are. But if you object to someone having a different one and saying so you really need to question why you're posting on this board. I'm asking a genuine question here.. Why do you take it personally? I disagree with many posters on here. Look at DaveO for example. I doubt we've agreed on more than a handful of topics in over a decade of posting but he takes it in the spirit it's intended.

Glad to hear Lockers is your favourite player btw. That's something we can definitely agree on!



PS. Which facts and figures have I manipulated? I don't know what you're referring to there.

I'd like to argue, Andy, but you're right there!

Gildart excellent news. Would have been very hard to replace.

I hope Bateman stays, I do think though he is very replaceable. I don’t think we can replace him from SL but comfortably I think the NRL will provide us with a quality replacement.

Comparing SOL with Bateman is unfair. Bateman is a great player, SOL was a great player too at the same age, with much more to his game.

SOL has been World Class, Bateman will never be World Class.

I think it's probably you who are the exception here. Not many think Hardaker is a Sam T kind of full back.



OK. Blake Green. Feel better now? Is he available? No idea. Would he come if we asked. No idea. I can name any random non-rep NRL halfback you like but I have no idea what the contract status is of any of them are nor do I know if they would be amenable to a move to the UK. That is what Radlinski is paid to find out. So given I think we need a better 7 to exploit Hardaker's talent I also think Radlinski needs to get on a plane to Oz to go and find one.

Great news, glad he's decided to stay.

Considering Gildart (seemingly) hasn’t been given marquee status, one could assume that Bateman would receive it or we have a signing in the pipeline (if Bateman goes)?

There is a rumour posted on the A&L facebook page from some NRL source that says both Sutton and Bateman are off to the Raiders.

They also said Gildart was going to Saints

Bateman is not marquee status!

Lockers had this weird stigma attached to him in his early to mid twenties that he was some sort of average Joe (by a section of Wigan fans and most opposition fans) and it took that man of the series performance you mention, years worth of ridiculously consistent performances for Wigan and latterly another couple of international man of the series awards before pretty much everyone has been turned around.

John Bateman is top superleague quality and has the potential to be a good international player but he isn’t and won’t ever be in Sean O’Loughlins League. He doesn’t have the natural ball skills or size of Lockers. These two things combined have made him the World Class player he has been (and on the odd occasion he still is).

This!!

Good player but never a marquee one.

I remember meeting Rouges Gallery for the first time, we discussed the fact that people on this forum failed to understand just how good SOL was, he was the focus of lots of negative comments at the time by Wigan fans and opposition fans too.

It’s interesting to see some of the posters we discussed that day now raving about Locky.

Bateman has the mentality to be a World Class player.

He however lacks the physical gifts that others have.

Too small for a World Class forward, too slow for a World Class back.

I’d be more than happy to see Bateman leave if we could get an aging Hoffman back.

Wow, re-signed a young lad that the club paid for and developed and he held the club to ransom, just like Tomkins.

Happy Clappers clapping, crowds are gone.

Long Live the Happy Clappers.

Couldn't agree more NK. I never got the negativity from certain fans as it just didn't equate with what we saw on the field, the opinion of his peers or, most tellingly that of the coaches he played under. I truly think the only reason was the old line that I heard peddled at the time that he wasn't Andy Farrell. As I used to say when I heard this "and Andy Farrell is no Ellery Hanley.. What's your point?"

Tbh, this is the main reason I called LSOW on his post. I thought we'd left this revisionist view in the trash heap of history where it belongs. Even opposition fans (well, enlightened ones anyway!) no longer subscribe to this view. I've seen Saints fans call him the best player in Superleague, I've seen Leeds fans say his withdrawal was the difference between us winning and losing the World cup this year. I guess it just galls me when our own fans trot out a long debunked line. Maybe it should be water off a duck's back by now! lol.

I'll share a little story with you though. When Daz Goulding was coming through the ranks I remember chatting to him (he was a good friend of a neighbour) and all he could talk about was how hard Gaz Hock was and how good Sean O'Loughlin was. I've seen nothing over the years to cast doubt on either of those appraisals!

I used to get terrorised on the Virtual Terrace especially when I was trying to explain just how good O’Loughlin was. It was a losing battle for a long time.

There have been very few players who can mix their game like Lockers and play to whatever role you need them to. That recent performance at Catalans pretty much summed him up.

The link to Farrell and our lack of success made it hard for him and it’s a credit to him that he didn’t crumble. I remember winning that Grand Final in 2010 and feeling as pleased that he’d got to lift a trophy as I did for the club winning the thing.

It’ll be a sad day and a scary one when he calls it quits.

What separates Lockers from the vast majority of players is not only his incredible ability and determination but moreso the sheer consistency that he’s played at that level over many years. I too was made up for him as an individual as well as for the club for the 2010 success.
He has a genuine aura around him and it’s clear as day that other clubs fancy their chances against us a lot more when he’s not in the 17. He has the respect of players, coaches and fans all around the world and rightly so. The day he hangs up his boots will be a very sad day for rugby league in this country.

I believe he is a bit of a big time Charlie, loving himself and thinking he is above everyone, hence why Wire shipped him off to teach him some manners and humility. I rate him, but he hasn't really done too much to warrant wigans' interest in my opinion.

not sure why this topic has derailed from Gildart so much, but in the interests of keeping up with you lot.... can you imagine not only (potentially) losing Lockers but also Bateman at the seasons' end? I'm not saying Bateman is Lockers' replacement long term, but Wigan should absolutely do everything to retain Bateman in my opinion.

you are comparing Bateman and Lockers at the same age, fair enough. But Lockers wasn't much bigger than Bateman currently is when he was Batemans' (current) age. Lockers has evolved as a player in skill, strength and size under Wigan's tutelage and I cannot see any reason why Bateman won't do the same given the opportunity. he perhaps isn't worthy of a Marquee spot I agree, but if money is the issue, which I very much doubt it is considering I am hearing all sorts of reasons he will stay such as his young family etc, then wigan now have the means to retain his services - they should do so and nothing less.

i'd go as far to say that bringing in some big NRL Marquee will not replace Bateman, actually. he has the potential to be Harrison Hansen, Ryan Hoffman and Lockers all rolled up into one.

I think Williams would make a good 13 in the near future, he has the size, pace and can tackle above his weight. There you go loose problem solved

It may be that Gildart, or Hardaker now we have announced his signing or Bateman if he negotiates a replacement contract for next season (he is not in his final year of his current deal don't forget) will take up a marquee slot from next year. Until Sam has actually left though we can't nominate anyone else as taking up a marquee slot as we already have the permitted two marquee players.

Due to the rules on cap exemption it may not necessarily follow that the highest earner takes the slot. Of the three contenders Gildart would effectively cost £75k while the others would cost £150k as marquee. If Gildart was on £125k and one of the others on £150k-£199k then we save more cap wise by putting Gildart as marquee even though in that hypothetical situation he would be taking home less.

Right ok...
Firstly I wouldn't classify my comments as a theory, they're an opinion. And of course, which is open for debate. Don't forget the context of my comments; which are that Bateman is worthy of the marquee (I think people aren't realistic about the marquee) and I do, in my opinion feel Bateman is better 'age for age' than Lockers.

You wanted facts? Don't forget Bateman was England academy captain in 2012 taking them onto a tour of Oz, in the same year he won the Albert Goldthorpe rookie of the year award. He's someone, in the same team as Lockers at this point named clubs player of the year 2 years running in 2015/16.
In the same space of time John has won a WCC, a SL title.

(By the way this kills me to compare anyone to Lockers who is my fav player at wigan)
In comparison by 24 Lockers has won... yes you've named it: nothing! And was 28 before his first appearance in a SL dream team.

I think people forget how much Lockers improved in his late 20s.