Quote ="post" I might sound like a tin foil hat wearing conspiracy theorist, but when you have an hour to spare, go and check out Yuri Bezmenov on youtube talking about subversion and see if you think with relation to what we have been discussing, it might open your eyes. '" @Jukesays : I've been recommending Yuri Bezmenov for the last 12 months, it seems over the weekend he's had millions of views on Youtube, nothing to do with me though, to do with new Call of Duty - Cold War game. Check it out, it might explain a lot of what's gone on in the last 3 months. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Y9TviIuXPSE - Full speech/seminar https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=m1kfCGjOaSw - Call of Duty Teaser

Quote ="post" I might sound like a tin foil hat wearing conspiracy theorist, but when you have an hour to spare, go and check out Yuri Bezmenov on youtube talking about subversion and see if you think with relation to what we have been discussing, it might open your eyes. '" @Jukesays : I've been recommending Yuri Bezmenov for the last 12 months, it seems over the weekend he's had millions of views on Youtube, nothing to do with me though, to do with new Call of Duty - Cold War game. Check it out, it might explain a lot of what's gone on in the last 3 months. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Y9TviIuXPSE - Full speech/seminar https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=m1kfCGjOaSw - Call of Duty Teaser

Quote ="post"@Jukesays : I've been recommending Yuri Bezmenov for the last 12 months, it seems over the weekend he's had millions of views on Youtube, nothing to do with me though, to do with new Call of Duty - Cold War game. Check it out, it might explain a lot of what's gone on in the last 3 months. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Y9TviIuXPSE - Full speech/seminar https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=m1kfCGjOaSw - Call of Duty Teaser'" Ok, so as not to risk putting words in your mouth and assuming which angle your coming from with this. Could you explain where your seeing subversion tactics, from whom, applied to who and in what areas? (PS I'm 30mins in)

Quote ="post"@Jukesays : I've been recommending Yuri Bezmenov for the last 12 months, it seems over the weekend he's had millions of views on Youtube, nothing to do with me though, to do with new Call of Duty - Cold War game. Check it out, it might explain a lot of what's gone on in the last 3 months. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Y9TviIuXPSE - Full speech/seminar https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=m1kfCGjOaSw - Call of Duty Teaser'" Ok, so as not to risk putting words in your mouth and assuming which angle your coming from with this. Could you explain where your seeing subversion tactics, from whom, applied to who and in what areas? (PS I'm 30mins in)

Make your own mind up on that one.

Quote ="Jukesays"I'll have a little bet with you that I've read, researched and watched more stuff on the subject in the last 5 years than you have. Yes, I am that Boring. But turn that paragraph on yourself and look in that mirror. Fake news! 3 line slogans Why dont you try to listen to the people that feel oppressed/hard done to Facebook's (And Twitter's) Armchair experts, who listen to all the other armchair racists spreading their vile messages which are disguised racist agendas Try Empathy Ruddy uses an analogy earlier about "Whatabout the white girl, or the white man injured or killed by a black/asian" "Wheres the marches for that, wheres the kneeling for that". If anyone cant see the difference it's because they dont want to or their not interested in researching to understand the difference. Its abhorrent, black people kill white people, white people kill black people, Asian people kill white people and vice versa, it's all terrible. The Facebook (insert derogatory name) use Lee Rigby's name as a reason Not to support equal rights, there is no need to March because his killers were brought to justice by the people who are meant to do that. The reason there is a Black lives matter movement etc is because the very people who are supposed to be upholding the law, the people who are supposed to determine justice, the people who are supposed to hire people fairly etc. Arent doing it to the EQUAL standards they are supposed to be. Ask Steven Lawrence's parents, and yes things are getting better, but research and studies done by then police themselves in the last year accepts that there is "Still work to do". Your retort that there are already laws, yes there are, and that's progress that was made in the 50s/60s/70s/80s etc which is fine. But just as there are laws about speeding, some people dont abide by them even though they are there. Some officers do target minorities, some bosses still dont employ women, minorities and disabled people fairly and equally. And those people who are disadvantaged are prepared to stand up for their rights to be treated equally, Good on um. And I am in no way equating the UKs overall situation to the USA, wheebitbis far worse IMO. But Raheem Sterling didnt speak out after geroge floyd, he felt the need to speak out before. Others have done so in the not too recent past. Should they all just sit right and hope it goes away, because your response that they are "Putting race relations back 30 years" seems to blame the victims for their own situation? https://theconversation.com/how-racist- ... -us-141657 End of the day its this You don't perceive their to be an issue and/or their way of highlighting and dealing with it, a lot of people do Next time you feel aggrieved about something because you've been unfairly treated in your opinion, just imagine how it would feel after 10/20/30/40 years or for an whole lifetime of being ignored, then being told to shut up, your doing it the wrong way, the very people who provided rhebinjustice k ow better than you on how you should react and deal with that injustice because they feel sick of hearing you bleat in about it.'" Well what do you think about this? All because the new Black female conductor is a big fan of the BLM movement BBC 'is considering dropping Rule Britannia and Land of Hope and Glory from Last Night of the Proms in wake of BLM protests' because organisers fear backlash over their links to colonialism and slavery

Quote ="Jukesays"I'll have a little bet with you that I've read, researched and watched more stuff on the subject in the last 5 years than you have. Yes, I am that Boring. But turn that paragraph on yourself and look in that mirror. Fake news! 3 line slogans Why dont you try to listen to the people that feel oppressed/hard done to Facebook's (And Twitter's) Armchair experts, who listen to all the other armchair racists spreading their vile messages which are disguised racist agendas Try Empathy Ruddy uses an analogy earlier about "Whatabout the white girl, or the white man injured or killed by a black/asian" "Wheres the marches for that, wheres the kneeling for that". If anyone cant see the difference it's because they dont want to or their not interested in researching to understand the difference. Its abhorrent, black people kill white people, white people kill black people, Asian people kill white people and vice versa, it's all terrible. The Facebook (insert derogatory name) use Lee Rigby's name as a reason Not to support equal rights, there is no need to March because his killers were brought to justice by the people who are meant to do that. The reason there is a Black lives matter movement etc is because the very people who are supposed to be upholding the law, the people who are supposed to determine justice, the people who are supposed to hire people fairly etc. Arent doing it to the EQUAL standards they are supposed to be. Ask Steven Lawrence's parents, and yes things are getting better, but research and studies done by then police themselves in the last year accepts that there is "Still work to do". Your retort that there are already laws, yes there are, and that's progress that was made in the 50s/60s/70s/80s etc which is fine. But just as there are laws about speeding, some people dont abide by them even though they are there. Some officers do target minorities, some bosses still dont employ women, minorities and disabled people fairly and equally. And those people who are disadvantaged are prepared to stand up for their rights to be treated equally, Good on um. And I am in no way equating the UKs overall situation to the USA, wheebitbis far worse IMO. But Raheem Sterling didnt speak out after geroge floyd, he felt the need to speak out before. Others have done so in the not too recent past. Should they all just sit right and hope it goes away, because your response that they are "Putting race relations back 30 years" seems to blame the victims for their own situation? https://theconversation.com/how-racist- ... -us-141657 End of the day its this You don't perceive their to be an issue and/or their way of highlighting and dealing with it, a lot of people do Next time you feel aggrieved about something because you've been unfairly treated in your opinion, just imagine how it would feel after 10/20/30/40 years or for an whole lifetime of being ignored, then being told to shut up, your doing it the wrong way, the very people who provided rhebinjustice k ow better than you on how you should react and deal with that injustice because they feel sick of hearing you bleat in about it.'" Well what do you think about this? All because the new Black female conductor is a big fan of the BLM movement BBC 'is considering dropping Rule Britannia and Land of Hope and Glory from Last Night of the Proms in wake of BLM protests' because organisers fear backlash over their links to colonialism and slavery

Been reading Turning Point UK again have you

No reply on the George Floyd thing yet though?

I'm paraphrasing but Gramsci stated that that Socialism would triumph on first capturing the culture via the infiltration of schools, universities, churches and the media. Gramsci was pragmatic in that you couldn't have revolution all over the world so other means were required if Socialism was to succeed the world over.

Laclau and Mouffe (sp?) in I think the 80's or 90's realised that the Marx view that the oppressed working class would would rise and overthrow Capitalism was never going to occur (the working class probably too smart to take any notice of Marx) so they sought to modify the class struggle by adding other victims of Capitalism namely national minorities, sexual minorities, new feminism and anti nuclear movement.
I could be totally wrong but I think these 2 first mooted the patriarchy and the need to dismantle the power of the patriarchy.

Bezmenov would have been very aware of Gramsci and possibly Laclau & Mouffe so probably easy for him to quote subversion after he had defected.
It's years since I saw the Bezmenov interviews so I genuinely dont recall the entire content but I think the gist was a plan of subversion that Socialists had generally accepted after repeated failures in Eastern Europe, Vietnam and Cambodia etc i.e. subversion over revolution.
I don't beleive in a Russian subversion but a Socialist one is all around us.

No cant say i have not interested
Just pointing out to you that Racism works both ways .
I have made my comments on Floyd and why i believe the officers involved will not be convicted on murder charges based on the Autopsy.In fact in my opinion they will all get off.Death was due to a heart disease not asphyxiation which rules out unlawfull killing by kneeling on his neck
With two different drugs inside his body you can see why he resisted arrest but remember if he had done what the officers had asked him and got into the police car instead of kicking off then none of this would have happened.

Sorry
What I meant was specifics
I..e how, where, who is using these tactics and in what way?

You didnt reply to this



I suppose itll be easy to write this off as Fake News in your world

Virtually every university in the country is dominated by the left. More people going to university more possibilities of more Socialist views. Name me one person who heads up The Church, is in Government, senior positions in law or industry who hasn't been to university.
Germaine Greer probably the most influential feminist in the 60's and 70's attacked for basically telling the truth

BBB C4 and Sky's Brexit coverage which was abysmal at best. I voted remain and even I thought the bias was blatant and ridiculous

Name me one "right wing" comedian on TV?If you name one I will ten left wing.
I can't think of one conservative celebrity on TV who openly airs their views.

Ash Sarker "I'm literally a communist" goes on QT, GMB and no one bats an eyelid. To be a communist is just accepted. Why hasn't someone from the equivalent right also appeared on these programmes so that we can see both cheeks of the backside?

Communists are in the Labour Party and no one cares although Starmer may hopefully change that.

The how has been done
The where is in schools, universities and media

You either believe this or you don't. I ain't trying to preach or convert I'm just saying what i believe to be true if you believe differently fair do's.

This is all a great display of the sort of grievance politics the right thrives on. Somehow they've managed to brainwash themselves and their followers that [ithey[/i, who have been running this country for 45 of the past 70 years, (and as predominantly white males have been in charge overall for a lot longer) are somehow the oppressed underdogs who never get a break and never get a chance.
It would be brazen if it wasn't so widespread and consistent.

And if you've never seen Nigel Farage, the most important far-right figure in British politics since Moseley, on Question Time or GMB then I suspect you've been deliberately not looking very hard for something which might challenge your sadly entrenched opinions.

Farage is an .
I assume that you agree that Sarkar is in the same bed as Farage?
I assume that you agree all extremists left and right are s?
Which university did you go to?

I actually called Farage an arrishole not a great dude.
I cannot stand the guy.

By the way I have only ever voted Labour since 1975 so ain't got a clue where the right bit you state comes from. I wouldn't vote for Corbyn in 2019 & 2017 but apart from that I've voted labour in every general election and local council election since I was eligible to vote.
What university did you go to?

Many of the people noticed judging by the way, the Labour Party led by Corbyn and his Momentum cronies were humiliated at the General Election.

That is apart from the young idiot rent a mob crowd who following the election marched around the streets of London with the usual SWP placards much to the amusement of those who were enjoying themselves in the outside areas of bars and clubs.

Never mind, they will see the light as they get older and wiser!

Sounds like you are a member of the Communist or Socialist Workers Party judging by your comments.

Not really (and certainly not factually, I've voted Tory four times in General Elections, Labour once).
But there is a denial of reality, displacement of responsibility and rejection of empathy that has become so tragically common amongst all too many supporters of the Conservative party and the party itself.

As it stands they have become far too extreme for me to vote for even if I agree with what are supposed to be some of their underlying economic policies.

A couple of pages ago I wrote about how it never ceases to amaze me how one side gets labelled as Snowflake, get accused of not being able to debate, accused of name calling and not being educated/loony etc yet it's ok for the right leaners to name call etc. And they want to shut debate down.
I never thought though that being educated would be one of the accusations you would have to defend.

Much better to be educated by Facebook, Twitter, Fox News, YouTube, Alex Jones, Breitbart, Turning point etc apparently

Once again facts have been presented, but no replies. (The George floyd accusation, the rubbish about BBC only allowing "Lefties" who are communists, marxists on to name just 2). Neither get replies, people just ignore what's presented, and people wonder why the governments are allowed to do the same thing. I've seen people with my own eyes who backed Brexit, now 100% back Bojo and the others, purely to save face over Brexit and when you present any kind of fact/argument thatbthey dont like they suddenly want to stop debate and move on to something else.
Just more requests to "Just Believe us". (And yes I did use a 3 word slogan deliberate there).

Qanon followers I bet

Facts dont matter anymore

When you say facts don't matter, we shall see whether facts matter once the verdict of how George Floyd died and how people in the US react to Trump getting a second term due to being democratically elected, let's see how the left deal with facts. Probably by civil war.

We certainly will

I mean I've already provided a link debunking the other posters claim that he died of heart disease etc.
And as for civil war, weve seen the pictures of the people with guns! We know what their intention is if he doesnt get a 2nd term

To be honest, I think the Country would explode should he win, not a whimper if he loses.

Whether you like Trump or not, if you trust the Democrats you are living in cloud cuckoo land. At least Trump is telling you what he's going to do, I'd much rather someone say 'I'm going to punch you in the face' and then do that, rather than a Democrat/Labour who would say 'I'm not going to punch you in the face' then proceed to kick you in the gonads time and time again and flat out deny it.

If Hillary Clinton won that last election the US and the UK would be in full scale war in Libya and Syria.

Ps - This thread should be renamed the 4am kitchen conversation after smoking too much wacky backy

Just like they didn't when she was Secretary of State you mean?
Honestly it's so hard to discuss things when you have an entirely different set of facts.

Ok - If that's what you think
Let's just say that your watching/reading totally different views to what's really going on that I am - I'm more than confident in my choices.

Correct
It's Mind Boggling

Watched the 4 part Documentary on her about 2months ago - Very good viewing