Correct, and whether Tommy plays at 7 or 9 should in no way affect that.

PS

What was unforgiveable yesterday was that we had a 4 point lead and a strong wind behind us and in the last 5 mins twice we tried to get to the 6th tackle before getting a kick away!

Get to say 3rd, give it to Pat and let him boot the thing 60/70 yards downfied (Or even dead!).

At that point we had Tommy/Finch and Deacon on the field with god knows how many Grand final winners medals, international caps, world cup winners medal etc etc and were trying to give the thing to Tuson 25 yards from our own line to get bashed by 5 forwards trying to force a mistake just so he can gain an extra 5 yeards!

Can you imagine what Edwards would have done? "Here Joe, Boot the Bl00dy thing down field!"

The local weather forecast isn't good, to say the least

Probably fed it to Offiah who would have raced under the sticks.

You're right, I think it's hooker where the biggest problem is rather than halfback. I think with a good hooker in the side Leuluai would be fine at scrum half. You only have to look at how good Warrington and Saints can be and that their main threat comes from Monaghan and Roby respectively. I think hooker is probably the most important position on the field and it can make a huge difference to a performance in terms of attack. I don't think McIlorum is anywhere near good enough to match those two players but I think Leuluai is probably a little closer to that level. He's dangerous with ball in hand, he seems to be a better distributor and whilst he's not as good defensively as McIlorum he probably is more likely to hurt the opponents forwards with his tackling, which can make a big difference.

I think most times that McIlorum and Leuluai have started and then Leuluai moved to hooker there hasn't been that much difference in the way that the team play. The attack still looks a little laboured and predictable around the play the ball. I thought Leuluai looked much better than McIlorum against Cas considering both players were backing up and I'd be worried going into the next game having to rely on McIlorum as first choice hooker.

I'm not entirely sure what my preferred option would be. I do think that an attacking threat, someone who is dangerous running with the ball, it needed in the halves because Deacon and Finch are so similar, but I think McIlorum has been poor recently at hooker and I also think Leuluai is probably the best hooker in the team. I'd have thought the last few weeks would have been ideal to throw Mellor into the mix to see if he can add something to the halves but Madge doesn't look likely to switch Deacon and Finch, and even if he did it would be by moving Leuluai back to scrum half. There's little chance of Sam moving from fullback into the halves and I don't think one steady performance by Roberts is enough to determine whether he could provide an adequate attacking threat. I also thought Logan Tomkins deserved a chance with McIlorum looking out of sorts but it doesn't look like he'll get a look in any time soon either.

I'm just rambling now, but I don't think Leuluai is the best option at scrum half but I also don't think he's a bad option as long as McIlorum makes a significant improvement, but I'm not sure where that improvement would come from.

It is highly probable that one of the reasons we have struggled this year is that we lost Riddell - although looking like we strengthened the team with 3 players from Storm the loss of one of the better No 9's in the game (on last seasons form) makes a huge difference to how the rest of the team performs.

Lima and Hoff have been big sucesses - with the loss of fielden we would have really struggled without Lima in the team and hes really taken on the workhorse role. Finch has been a mixed bag for me - i'm pretty sure we haven't seen the best of him, he's definately not firing on all cylinders.

The combo of MM and piggy worked well last year , a bit of craft from piggy and some hard defence and dummy half running from MM. This season we don't really have a sound platform from 9 and it's shown in how our attack has struggled to find top gear.

Anyway - back to the team. It would have been nice to see how Finch could play at 9, his flat passes to a runner off his shoulder might be more suitable running from dummy half - though probably not a time to try him out against saints.

Starting MM against Roby I think is probably the way to go - to win against Saints, Roby needs to be shut down, together with their forwards running up the middle with a runner on their shoulder. MM's defence in the middle of the park is what's needed.

I would possibly be tempted to start Sam in the halves with deacon to allow Tommy to come on fresh at 9, Finch and two props make the rest of the bench.

Either Amos (depending on how his attitude/confidence is) or Pat at FB. If we shift Pat then Amos to the wing (it might be nice to see how King goes after he's been getting rave reviews but again it would have been good to try him out earlier in a lesser game).

Bottom line is the way we use MM and Tommy isn't quite working so we need to make a couple of changes, as it's probably the most important position on the field.

I think after starting against Castleford, It would do Roberts confidence a lot good if he got a start against Saints away. He might feel wanted again, and also Sam at 6 would probably throw Saints gameplan way off! Here's hoping...

The message I get is:

'the plan is to play him'

Apparently, he's looking good

1. Sam
2. Charnley
3. Joel
4. George
5. Richards
6. Deacon
7. Leuluai
8. Prescott
9. Mickey Mac
10. Coley
11. Hansen
12. Hoffmann
13. Lockers

14. Mossop
15. Finch
16. Lima
17. Farrell (if fit)

I'd leave Roberts in and bring Sam back in at 6 with Coley coming back in for Tuson.

Roberts
Charnley
J Tomkins
Carmont
Richards
S Tomkins
Deacon
Coley
Leuluai
Mossop
Hansen
Hoffman
Lockers

subs
Lima
Prescott
Farrell
McIlorum

quielty confident about friday's game, especially if Coley is back

This.

i like this

For someone who is lacking in confidence I feel putting Roberts in at FB in such a massive game could kill him off. Saint would bomb him all day long.
I do also think McM is an issue at 9, however considering other options he should feature off the bench in shorter spells than Tommy. Start Tommy off, play him for 25-30mins, then McM for the last 10 and poss the first 20 for the second half. Finish off like we start with a trickly creative 9.

Sam
Charnley Joel Carmont Pat
Finch Deacon
Coley (if fit) Tommy Mossop
Hoffman Hansen
Lockers
-----------------
Lima McM Faz Prescott.

Roberts was rock solid in awful conditions on Sunday, he deserves another chance IMO. Tuson is definitely at risk of being dropped, and Finch/McIlorum could miss out for Roberts.

I'd say :

Roberts
Charnley
Tomkins
Carmont
Richards
S Tomkins
Deacon
Coley
Tommy
Faz
Hansen
Hoffman
Lockers

Subs:
Mossop
Mcllorum
Finch
Prescott

Faz at prop and no Lima? Are you mental love?

I'm not sure I understand the calls for Roberts to remain at fullback to be honest. He's had one recent game there and was solid defensively but didn't do anything in attack. He might have done if the conditions were better but I think it's a huge risk to assume that he would offer an adequate attacking threat there.
I don't understand the desire to move Tomkins from fullback, he's been devastating there in recent games and he's shot up the try scoring charts as a result. I'm not sure I understand where the desire to move him back into the halves comes from when Roberts has played one game after a long time out of the first team. All Roberts was doing was catching the ball. He was very safe, he looked safer than Tomkins but that is the bare minimum. I didn't see much else; at least nothing to suggest that the most dangerous player in the team should switch positions to accommodate him.

My reason for putting Tomkins back in at 6 is not because I'm desperate to get him back in there but more because I really think Finch is struggling. I don't want to see Leuluai moved out of 9 so moving Sam back into the halves seems the best option.

The fact that he's in such good form can help him at 6 aswell. He's going to be getting his hands on the ball in most tackles and that gives him a great chance of doing damage.

Just read it back lol i will put lima in for farrell then lol !! i must of been mental then to put that in the first place !!

[/u


Draw ?

Wouldn't surprise me!

He should be nowhere near the first team at the moment. He needs to up his game.

Talk of Roberts back is ridiculous. It would seem fans are still holding on thinking he's capable of retaining his former glory which lasted for about 8 games. Don't forget he was bad before his good spell, so it reality he's just returned to his former level since he's been a Wigan player.
People who cry out for Roberts return do it at the expense of moving Sam from his a position which he's proven to be a massive success at, to disrupt a settling halfback partnership and at the cost of removing our best tactical kicker in deacon.

Alll for a player who has had 10 good games in his whole time at Wigan.

As everyone is saying Sam has been our most consistant attacker by far, but all in broken field running. This he can still do from standoff when defenders cant confront him in numbers because they have to maintain the defensive line.
At present when he fields the ball from a kick he is confronted with a wall of defenders who know that he has few options to pass to a supporting player. This means that he is having to take more of an hammering than he should be expected to,remember he doesn't have the build of a Richards to absorb these hits.
At times in a strange way he reminds me of a young Shaun Briscoe who was to brave for his own good, who because of his bravery got some fearfull batterings about the head.
Sam at standoff would give us much needed pace in the halfs,which at present is so lacking.

Roberts played last night for the 9s anyway (which means he's already played 3 times in a week), so I doubt he'll play Friday. Goulding also turned out for the 9s, so I guess Carmont's back too.

Don't understand people still calling for Sam to play in the halfs. He's a fullback now. GET OVER IT!