I blame Max, he always looks like hes hiding something to me. Hes a right shifty bugger.

I was wondering this, it's all doom n gloom on here atm. We finished 2nd this year, 1 point behind top, only lost 4 times in the regular season all year to the same 2 teams, WON THE CHALLENGE CUP, via a very difficult route and eventually ran out of steam and couldn't quite get through the playoffs and give Madge a fairytale ending.

Fair enough there are some changes to the playing and coaching rosters next season but providing we can add a bit of quality and with returning players such as Fielden and a full pre season for Hock we shouldn't be much weaker than this year. Plus we'll have Finch and Richards from the off next season. I haven't seen anything from any of the other teams to suggest we are going to tumble down to anything below 3rd or 4th next season though. If we can add a decent centre and stand off I'd put money on us finishing in the top 2 again.

I agree with most of what you say ,but what concerns me is that once Madge said he was going he was not looking further than the end of this season. Hence playing the strongest team every game.
True transistion should be ongoing not saying we will start next season, which means by not blooding a couple of youngsters in matches late this season the decision may come back to haunt us next year.
They will be starting cold with an aging squad.

I agree you could always trust that gorilla/monkey thing, he or she was Wigan through and through.

Bloody hell, and I thought the inbred lowlives infesting redvee were bad when it came to kneejerk pessimism... You'll be absolutely fine next season and there or thereabouts come the trophy shakeup. With the quality and youth you already have and the new signings that will inevitably be on the way you'll make the top 4 without breaking sweat and that's all you need to do these days. Actually, top 8 is all you need in this fantatic playoff system and you could do that with me playing. Just chill, guys

Leave the tea lady out of this

If she wanted leaving out of it she should have announced the biscuit selection for next season.

It's rumoured we are going back to traditional, eg custard creams, morning coffee etc.




p.s. this is not an announcement.

Saints have made six Grand Finals in a row and I'm pretty sure at the start of at least three of those seasons we were heading into a transition season, including this year.

There are concerns you may have over your team but there are also youngsters who will be a year older so there's no reason to believe you won't be challenging for trophies. Even if your new coach isn't as effective as Madge the residuals of his culture will still be there and the players have had two years now knowing what it takes to compete. That doesn't evaporate overnight.

Bog off back to your own board.

That's two sensible posts from yourself an Billinge_Lump in the last week. Added to that some sensible comments on Saturday pre-match. I'm getting paranoid.

Come on Leeds



Tell Mark to check his pms
It's about an interesting conversation that I forgot to tell you both about.

i would much prefer getting to 1 gf and winning it in a hack canter.

In terms of recruitment there is not alot to fear. Most teams are now finding; with the rules for federation players that, damn we've got no youth set up.

Any team with a half decent youth set up has the advantage now. If you look at some of the signings for next year, tony tonks, chris hill, jamie ellis, teams are now raiding the championship like they haven't in years, because all the overseas loop holes are pretty much closed.

We've even seen Hull raiding Bradford for their number 1 player. Although it was hardly a raid, more like a ebay sale. Those cheap season ticket have to be paid for one way or another.

I can't see many big names coming from the NRL for the next few years with the factors of image rights going, £v$ and the huge NRL TV contract.

Basically it's going to be older players and dog molesters only until the SL can even up the cash.

So for wigan it could be as shallow a transition period as Saints have had with youth filling the gaps, left by the older elite. Finals are likely.

Thats a good post with a lot of sense in it. I just had the image of SL coaches typing dog molesters in google



Does that mean we think that the teams down the bottom with poor youth set ups are gonna get even worse? For me last season the gap between teams at the top and bottom seemed huge on quite a few occasions.

Saints and Leeds are this season having a transistion season and have still got to the GF due to the playoffs.

Ive said it over and over again, play an under 23 teams up to about beginning of May. Let the over 23's have a massive break to about April then drip feed them back into the first team then, have them all back in the first team by the July and firing on all cylinders by the August. We may be 6th,7th,8th in the league but if they are all fully fit and fresh going into the playoffs they'd have as good a chance as anyone.
It would be revolutionary but if we win the GF then nobody cares because we've won when it matters and not from Feb to May when all the games are totally irrelevant and akin to pre-season friendlies.

We finished 2nd in the League and won the C Cup.
So of the clubs who finished behind us, which does anyone think will end next season higher than us in the League?
Saints have lost Graham, Pryce and Eastmond. The last two haven't done much for them though this year. Graham is irreplaceable! They are the only club that might.
Hudds flatter to deceive, no chance!
Leeds, many of the team over 30 yet have made the GF. They can do that but
consistency over a season I think is beyond this team now.
Catalans. A great squad who, more than any club, could make their home ground a fortress. All the travelling is their undoing.
No other club comes close.
Wire will be the ones to beat again but their squad has a lot of over 30s in it. How many season they have left in them only time will tell.

As for Wigan, Coley and Hoffman gone. Fielden will replace Coley and Hock take Hoffman's place as the left sided 2nd row. Knowing Shaun Wane's coaching history it would be sensible to think he will bring some of our U20s players into the first team in 2012. Only one or maybe two a game but a number of them over a season. I do think we are very well placed for the future and for next season as much as any. Looking forward to it already!

If that is how they become because of the format of the play offs the fans will stop going to league games and the clubs will go bust. We have just broken our own record for the best attended side in the league and we would not have done that if we were deliberately sticking out reserve sides for half the season.

The club markets the league games strongly because it needs the revenue and it could not do that if the league were reduced to such a low level of importance as you suggest. If we have a play off format that allows teams to plan on doing as you say and finishing 6th, 7th or 8th does not matter then the format is wrong because it will have allowed teams to do just that.

League games get better attendances than cup or playoff games so the fans vote with their feet as to the importance of games.

The Arguement for less teams could become stronger if the raid on the championship becomes a tidal wave.

Exactly but you won't maintain the large league crowds if fans start to perceive the games as pointless.

many games under Noble were pointless. he was always building up to a good run in the play offs

I may have been as well not watching a game all season and then turn up for the play off

At least the last 2 years have seen a team wanting to win week in week out. i can handle losing to a better side but not when we arent trying

As long as the team turn up and give it everything next season that's all i ask for, the results will then speak for themselves

Absolutely fine to have that attitude Pieman. If watching Wigan win pointless games during the season is what you want out of your attendance, then you are following the right competition. You must be well satisfied and good luck to you (and I actually mean that with no sarcasm).

However, personally I want Wigan to win the competition. If that is to be decided by whoever comes top after the regular rounds, then I would be completely aligned with you. Currently, however, it is not. The structure of the competition means that the regular rounds mean very little.

As I posted before, last year this didn't matter since Wigan were so far ahead of the rest, that this inherent flaw was not exposed. This year it has been. No sour grapes here, fair play to Stains and Leeds who have adapted to the system perfectly.

Imo Maguire has failed in this respect. He hasn't reacted to the rules of the competition as well as he might have done. Good coach, (not a great one yet, but hey he's young).

As for the suggestion that Wigan in some way "targetted" the cup at the expense of the league, then frankly I find this shocking. If they do this next year then perhaps they could tell us so we can make better informed choices about where we spend our attendance money.


The reality of the situation is that the playoffs are here to stay. The formats will be tinkered with to ensure maximum revenue, not equity. Sky will no doubt bleat on about how "great" it is that a team finishing 5th has made the final. Is it really that great (notwithstanding my complement to Leeds above)?

Let's just look at this :

Wigan finish 2nd and have two games against top 4 opposition
Leeds finish 5th and have 2 easy games and one against top 4 opposition.

The reality is that any of the semi finalists would have coasted against the other teams in the playoffs. The league is simply not competitive enough for anything else, and therefore for this format to be equitable.

Would probably be a very effective strategy. Sadly the RFL would no doubt fine the clubs for such actions, on account of the inevitable revenue drop.

The RFL want to have their cake and eat it.

there was a small element of sarcasm in my initial comments based on what Noble used to do

I want to watch Wigan win every week, win the cup and win the Grand final, as does every fan of every other club

the reality is that there can only be one winner of the cup and one winner of the GF, there is also the reality that we will get beat in some games by a better team and i can accept that

I dont agree with winning nothing at the end of 27 matches and have sympathy with Wire fans this year and saints fans in recent years. Coming top IMO should be rewarded more than it currently is. this is the measure of how good you have

However i know that due to SKY etc its all about winning a couple of games at the end of the season, not about what has gone before

fair play to saints and leeds for getting there, they have done what they needed when it mattered, however it doesnt mean that i think it is right

I was being sarcastic in my comments, but worryingly this is what teams could do. The playoffs will ruin the game in this country if everyone thinks straight and realise the regular season games are pointless. League games will start getting playoff attendances and the playoffs will get regular season attendances and that will destroy our sport. And the RFL will be to blame.

Only a fool would suggest the regular season is pointless.

FIOS