Tim Sheens is now available.

Last seen losing 6 games in a row with Hull KR before being sacked. This is the type of thing I'm talking about when I'm saying we shouldn't sack Lam now and be rushed into getting just anybody.

We shouldn’t rush into anybody and you won’t find me advocating for Tim Sheens. Yes he was a superb coach in his day but that’s long behind him now. We’re not going to win anything this season and I say that with equal amount of confidence and disappointment. It’s abundantly clear Lam just isn’t good enough. For me pull the trigger and get rid so we can start to build again. Clear out the rest at seasons end.

I've read this a few times from Wigan fans about how good the team is.

The outside backs (wingers and full back) are excellent. Hastings is also excellent.

The centres are OK - Bibby/Zak playing there are pretty average.

The pack has a couple of promising young lads but is nowhere near good enough.

That is not a great team. Not just because of the result at the weekend, but I think when it comes to the big games the team is a fair way short of Saints and Wire, particularly if those games come when it's not blazing sunshine for trying to play around bigger packs.

Might be proved wrong but would be surprised.

It’s as good as the Saints side Holbrook inherited!

Makinson wasn’t the Makinson we saw under Holbrook before he came.

Lomax wasn’t the Lomax we saw under Holbrook before he came.

Thompson wasn’t the Thompson we saw under Holbrook before he came.

Damn he even got dross like Peyroux and LMS playing well

Good coaches get more out of players, they improve them and take them on a level. There’s as much talent in Manfredi and Burgess as there is in Makinson, Hastings is a better player than Lomax as it is but there’s more in him, there’s more in Hardaker than he’s showing, there’s more in Bullock, more in Greenwood, more in Gildart even and so on. There’s a wealth of young talent to work with and to improve. If Holbrook could get Grace a first team gig and the billing he gets then by god I’d love to see what he’d drag out of Harry Smith, Morgan Smithies, Ethan Havard etc.

This isn’t a great team, you’re absolutely correct but it has enough talent in the squad to compete with any other squad in superleague.

Thanks for proving my point of who is to blame where recruitment is made, be it players or even a coach.

As for the prop forward position, you cannot expect young inexperienced players to do a job which should be done by more experienced players, but the problem at Wigan in recent games is a situation where our more experienced props are either past their best, injured (even one when signed) suspended, or not got the class or experience like the more experienced props at other clubs. It is no better in the wing position where one player has got a long term injury, one not playing anything like he was prior to himself having long term injuries and on the other wing, a player who is only playing due to the long term injury to another player and who at the end of the season is said to be going to another club and no other specialist winger in the present squad.

At the moment, the present squad is weak where good experienced prop forwards and wingers is concerned, a situation which Lanagan and Radlinski need to address as soon as possible.

Not to mention, a leader who has been a great and outstanding player and leader, but is now is only playing in odd games and when in the limited time he spends on the field is playing nothing like he has played in the past and should now be considering retiring while he is still at the top.

We may have the largest squad and the best academy in our game, but the fact remains that we have problems in the two positions mentioned!

I'd argue that the winger situation is one that no one could have foreseen (although I'm sure you'll say differently).

At the start of the season Marshall, Manfredi and Burgess, with cover from Bibby as 4th choice, seemed like a very good collection of wingers imo. It's unfortunate that Manfredi is struggling for form and Marshall has suffered a long term injury.

Show me another team in the league that has 4 front line wingers like we do. Yes other teams have one winger who is better than all of ours, but most sides would up creek if they had to drop down to their 4th choice option.

Maybe I’m undervaluing the wing position but I don’t see it as a huge issue this season or a massive priority for recruitment. Ideally we’d get one for next season with the Marshall injury and Burgess leaving but I go back to the coach and say a top one would get loads more out of Manfredi and Burgess now and a top coach could work with and be successful with Manfredi and Bibby at the start of next season. Ian Watson had Bibby playing out of his skin in that position last season.

It’s not as simple as the recruitment of the coach was poor and that proves they can’t recruit and the players are poor as well. It’s up the coach to get more out of the recruits, more out of the existing players and the youngsters and Lam isn’t doing that. It’s boring keep going back to Holbrook but I feel our situation now is so similar to where Saints found themselves just prior to his appointment. At that point Makinson looked a decent winger, Lomax a pretty good ‘utility’ back, Thompson a potentially good (not great) forward, Peyroux looked a laughable signing, LMS was bobbins and the kids looked average in the Cunningham team. You get a top coach in and like magic Makinson, Lomax and Thompson look international class, Peyroux and LMS unbelievably look like good players, the youngsters kick on a gear and so on. It all has a knock on effect.

Bottom line is that Lam simply isn’t good enough and that makes it difficult to judge what the players are capable of.

Spot on. It's not recruitment, more a mixture of not getting the best out out what we have, bad luck with injuries, and one or two contract extensions we shouldn't have given.

Lam won't leave before the season's end. Between then and now his coaching ability will be realised. We have lost three semi finals badly and the Leeds game was an up date on that fact.
Nothing less than a win against Wire will do. A failure to make the top four or a GF semi loss and I simply don't see how Lam can stay.
Surely a GF win is the only thing that might, just might save him.

So what other coaches are an option (other than Watson) and a good fit for us?

Brian McDermott?
Danny Ward?
Lee Radford?
Chris Chester?

I wouldn't consider any of those - the bottom two in particular make me shudder. Watson is the only domestic candidate unless the club can extend some form of olive branch to Shaun Wane (my preferred option).

I’d have Wane back but I think his time has been and gone. We both need to move on IMO.

I like Wane but I can’t go back to that boring rugby. We need to be looking to the future. We need to secure Watson and give him the reigns to build a team. Allow some of his back room staff in the conditioning coach for one. Watson would get the best out of our youth and senior player and would see the areas we could improve on.

Rads would need to go for this to happen.

James Ford? Daryl Powell? Danny Ward isn't a bad shout at all actually.

Shane Flannagan, Anthony Siebold.

I'd be fine with Watson as well - seems a really good guy and a talented coach.

I personally think though that a Shaun Wane who has had two years out of the game to study and develop new ideas is the best way to go. No-one can match him for work ethic and he'll be desperate to get back in the club game right now - it's ridiculous that he's just watching games in the stands. Any club who gets him will be a contender - I dont see a reason why it shouldn't be us unless relations have been broken beyond repair or Wane simply wants a fresh challenge.

I honestly don’t think getting rid now will do us any good. IL would be foolish not to be considering his options for next year.

Bringing Wane back is not a good idea. We need to move forwards. As good as he was for us we need a different direction. Watson looks a good shout, how he would fare at a ‘bigger’ club remains to be seen but there is only one way to find out.

They all make me shudder as none are any better than Lam except possibly Watson, but I don't think he would gamble on leaving Salford when he has spent so much time there, both as a player and a Coach.

Brian McDermott isn't better than Lam? He won 7 major trophies in 6 years.

I would take wane back in a heartbeat

There comes to a point we’re you’ve taken a team to it limits. Not to discredit Salford because they are an amazing team, it’s their budget what let’s them down. Two major shots at the trophy must be getting Watson close to this limit, if he wins the CC, why wouldn’t you leave on a high.

If I was Watson I’d be looking to test myself at a bigger club, maybe try to catch the eye of the NRL.

I find it hard to disagree with this. I’d have Watson as Head Coach, perhaps even look at James Ford as assistant. We’ve not only got to build our playing squad for the future but also our coaching set up. A snooker player plays 3-4 shots ahead, that’s what we’ve got to be doing, planning for 3-4 years in advance. That’s what’ll keep us at the top of our game

Danny Ward isn’t a bad shout but I wouldn’t touch Powell with a barge pole.