Correct
Let's make America great again
Let's take back control (brexit)
Footballs not as good as it used to be
Kids these days! Exams are easier
Etc etc

All longing for mythical pasts that didn't exist as they remember them.

Quote ="The_Enforcer"Why do you think crowds are dwindling? People want excitement not a boring sterile game. The game is missing bruisers like Skerrett. This is a tough game not tiddly winks. Watch an 80/90s game and tell me that isnt more exciting than most of todays bore fests. Listen to the crowd when theres is a scuffle, the whole stadium lifts and so do the players. Whilst we are at it, bring back the shoulder charge then we can see some proper big hits. If we carry on the way we are, we will be playing tick rugby.'" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vi5SnxkvkG4 Is this what we really want? There used to be a better version on YouTube but it has gone now. I imagine that a game like that would end up in police charges today. Or try this if that is a bit modern, https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=br ... ORM=VRDGAR Or if you like a scrum after every tackle https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=no ... ORM=VRDGAR

Quote ="The_Enforcer"Why do you think crowds are dwindling? People want excitement not a boring sterile game. The game is missing bruisers like Skerrett. This is a tough game not tiddly winks. Watch an 80/90s game and tell me that isnt more exciting than most of todays bore fests. Listen to the crowd when theres is a scuffle, the whole stadium lifts and so do the players. Whilst we are at it, bring back the shoulder charge then we can see some proper big hits. If we carry on the way we are, we will be playing tick rugby.'" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vi5SnxkvkG4 Is this what we really want? There used to be a better version on YouTube but it has gone now. I imagine that a game like that would end up in police charges today. Or try this if that is a bit modern, https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=br ... ORM=VRDGAR Or if you like a scrum after every tackle https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=no ... ORM=VRDGAR

Honestly all I’d change would be no automatic red for a punch.

Obviously I’m not meaning king hits or punching prone players.

But if two lads want to go toe to toe, let them crack on.

This shirt grabbing and face pushing is bloody embarrassing.

They seem to allow it for internationals and SOO, so why not the domestic game.

I miss shoulder charges but agree, lads are beasts these days so it’s pribsbky for the best.

Agree with this. Some games need a dust up and a straight red for me is spoiling it as a spectacle.

Most of the players are bigger these days so should be able to shoulder charge each other

And who are you to question somebody elses memory of the past? I know the kind of games i watched back in the day and i much preferred watching in the winter for example. I preferred the game as a whole back then and im not imagining it as you seem to think. Things have changed for the worse and the crowds are proof of that. You only need to look at how some our own fans have spent the last few years saying they have been bored at games. Who wants to pay to be bored at games? I cant remember a single time i came away from central park thinking i was bored. If it was an error ridden game you would usually have the excitement of a bit of biff to get both sets of fans excited.

And since you mentioned it.....

Make America Great Again means fixing bad trade deals that have drained Americas wealth, stopping pointless wars, fixing broken immigration policy that rewards illegal immigration, putting America first etc. Its simply a slogan for fixing the direction of the country.

Taking back control (Brexit) means running the UK ourselves and removing power from an unelected EU commission and giving it back to the people of the UK. What is wrong with that?

Football is not as good as it used to be. You mean you like all the constant diving and rolling in agony on the floor? I dont even watch it anymore, its become so pitiful. The players are now judged just as much on their celeb status as they are on their ability.

Kids these days, less said the better on that one.

Exams, ive no idea if their easier so cant comment.

So no, theres no mythical past as you put it, just real memories of how things used to be.

I dont remember anybody ever getting seriously injured because of a shoulder charge. I remember a lot of players getting the stuffing knocked out of them and lying prone on the ground but they usually got back up and carried on. It meant that the ball carrier had to be more alert to avoid being on the receiving end of a big hit.

Skulls ain't any thicker.... Well, there are exceptions..

Twenty years of reduced prosperity by which time those who voted for this stupidity will be dead and their grandchildren will be left to sort out the mess.

Well, as you live in a parliamentary democracy, a vote for Brexit is a vote to "Give back control" to parliament, not "The people".... How is that looking currently?

no they arent, in fact forwards are smaller

Parliament is chosen by the people every 5 years. If the people are not happy with the job that parliament is doing, the MP's can be removed and replaced. Parliament = People. How is it looking? Well it looks like many in parliament are trying to ignore the will of the people which will result in them losing their seats at the next election as it should be rather than a bunch of old men in Brussels who cannot be removed.

That is not what we are debating here though, the only reason i commented on it was because somebody else brought it up.

Back to Skerrett...

Sorry, had to reply to this....

Prosperity? You have no idea what you are talking about! The EU is a failing mess. Go to Greece and Italy and tell them how prosperous the EU is. Tell every business in the UK that has to abide by EU regulation no matter if they sell into the EU or not. Do you enjoy paying more for every day essentials such as food or clothing?

And Who are you to tell me What I'm thinking when you say "im not imagining it as you seem to think".
Who are you to question other posters who have a different "opinion" when comparing their memories of the past?

You mention crowds, let someone tell me what the Average crowds for rugby league were in say the top flight in the 70s/80s/90s compared to the 2000s and 2010s?
When we had rads/Farrell/Dallas/renouf/furner/lam etc we averaged about 10/11k
In the last 3 years although we had a drop last year we have still averaged between 12 and 13 1/2k , more than we had in the glory early years of SL and not too far off the attendances who watched great Wigan teams of later 80s and early 90s.
You carry on with your ideas of having Kelvin skerrett on the coaching staff as a forwards coach to "put some fire in their belly" and "toughen them up" or Martin Dermott teaching Sam Powell how to do a bit of a run around.
We could get hampson to teach hardaker how to jump and catch, Martin offiah to teach our wingers to run faster and Ellery Hanley could show sean o'loughlin how to score 50 tries a season.

Peter schmeicel was asked after they'd won the champions league would they beat the utd team of 68, he said yeah we'd beat them 10 nil, he was right.
If the Wigan team of last season played the Wigan team of say the late 80s they'd get 40/50.
And that's not dismissing the talents, abilitltes or qualities of the players of the past. I go to the British lions meal every year and talk to the mal Reilly, Colin Clarke and countless other great legends of the past and they were/are great. You can only be the best you can be in your era.
But
Cars get faster/safer/better
Conditions for people in general get better
People are living longer
Things move on and generally get better, nostalgia really isn't what it used to be.

PS "To All" not a reply to the enforcer
There's a great book by a Swedish physician, statistician, lecturer etc called Factfulness.
Fantastic read and In the words of Barrack Obama A hopeful book about the potential for human progress when we work off facts rather than our inherent biases.
Factfulness - only carrying opinions for which you have strong supporting facts.

One name comes directly to mind over the shoulder charge and getting injured,Ian Lucas,Paul Harrigan did for Lucas if i remember correctly

My memories do exist as i remember them. Just because you may not agree does not mean that my memory is playing tricks with me.

The level of attack on this forum towards anybody that has a differing view is astonishing.

Carry on in this sad state of denial and RL will die in this country. People want to see Skerrett type characters in the game, they want to see a fiery liittle Andy Gregory knocking seven bells out of an opposition forward. Its all part and parcel of a good game of RL.

Lets say thats one person badly injured by a shoulder charge then. How many players are badly injured by non shoulder charges? Phil Clarke broke his neck in a tackle that looked like a regular tackle that you see all the time. My point is that there was no common link between bad injuries and shoulder charges, not that i can remember anyway. Some of the greatest videos on youtube are of shoulder charges. The fans loved nothing better than seeing somebody get smashed by a big shoulder, especially if it was an opposition player who had been dishing it out, see David Kidwell on Willie Mason -a great hit that would result in him being banned today.

I have to say I'm with the Enforcer on this one. In truth, I've never really seen how 'attempting to wrap the arm round' which is all it takes to comply with the laws of the game has any bearing on the force of impact anyway. Many players are in favour of the shoulder charge too and were quite vocal in their opposition to its banning at the time of it being outlawed.

If I remember rightly the ruling was brought in because it was felt there were risks associated with direct contact with the head but surely the same can be said for any tackling technique if done incorrectly.

There is a point where the game becomes 'over sanitised'. I don't think we're at that level yet necessarily but continued incremental changes of this nature would definitely have us heading that way.

Ultimately, part of the attraction of any contact sport is, by definition, determined by the amount and nature of the contract. Boxing fans, for example, would soon lose interest if the fighters were only allowed to slap. RL is subject to the same diminishing returns. Remove the big hits and you remove part of the attraction. I think it's fair to say we'd all agree on that. The subjective part is how far down that track each individual is prepared to go before it starts to affect their enjoyment of, and interest in, the sport.

I’m all for the shoulder charge coming back; let’s be honest most of the time it failed miserably but when it came off it wasn’t half a belter.

Politics? Really?

I still don’t see how reintroducing mass brawls, mud baths, and Kelvin Skerret helps in anyway crowds for RL.

spear tackle

There's absolutely no way we'll go back to the 'era of the biff, whether it was a bit of a myth or the reality. People might complain about the game becoming a bit sanitised but you only have to read the horror stories of people who have played contact sports and suffered multiple concussions to understand why all sports are taking a no nonsense approach to anything that could cause a serious head injury. If the shoulder charge was still legal imagine how many players would go off for concussion assessments during games.

It might not be as exciting but lets be honest, a shoulder charge is a very poor tackle technique, generally doesn't do what most coaches want a defender to do these days (wrap the ball and control the tackle) and increases the risk of the defender getting injured too.

Yes, a good scrap can be exciting in a game but I don't think Super League has gone down the route of a punch being a mandatory red card as someone suggested earlier in the thread. I don't even think it's a mandatory sin bin over here like in the NRL.

Either way, the sport is still tough without shoulder charges, it's still exciting without punch ups and thuggery. From the lowest level right up to the top the best thing about rugby league is the excitement generated from good attacking rugby and tough players (not dirty ones).

Dwindling crowds have more to do with rugby league's inability to make itself relevant to people, particularly young people, at a time when there are so many other things (and not just sports) that are trying to grab their attention. The sport isn't competing well enough for the money available, we've lost quality players from Super League and they haven't really been replaced and the whole sport just seems to be clinging on and surviving because it's struggling to generate that 'must watch' buzz that other sports or events can create. A fight in every game won't improve any of that. In fact often when a fight happens in a game it just makes it stop start and prevents any real rugby from happening.

for me that is the biggest issue with the game, too much stop/start from too many penalties - the stop whilst hundreds (or what seems like anyway) water carriers run on the pitch at every scrum, even on cold days and then take forever to get off the pitch. The minutes taken during drop outs and the interminable replays for video ref decisions looking at it five times from every angle when it obvious from the first view what the decision is (is it me or do some videos refs give the impression that they are looking for a reason, any reason, to overturn the on field decision).


It kills the excitement when a game gets going only to grind to a halt for any of the above and all momentum drains away.

Because they were fun, the fans loved it! If you dont remember standing in the freezing cold on a dismal damp December Sunday afternoon seeing Skerrett start a mass brawl and then looking as innocent as a baby when called out by the ref then you've never lived. Those were the days of two sets of players getting stuck into one another and softening each other up. Nowadays everything is about stats instead of the good old fashioned biff.

So it wasnt a shoulder charge then.

So far not one example of a shoulder charge causing serious injury so why was it banned?

Don't know how we have got onto this tangent, but the amount of people on here who don't understand the rugby league shoulder charge rule is astounding. Clue: it isn't the same as the union one, most of your favourite old big hits are still legal