The problem for me is that whilst SW is a great motivator, he is incapable of having original thoughts.

We still play the same tactics that SW learnt under Michael Maguire.

Now this is NOT disastrous by itself - When we had Deacon and/or Harris as the assistant to Wane, they setup the attack and Wane worked the defence and motivation.

Unfortunately, this is no longer the case. I don't know what John Winder is supposed to do, but he clearly is not in the same class as Deacon or Harris as an assistant.

Right now, having just got back from watching that shower of shïte, I would happily replace both.

However, at the VERY least, we need to bring in someone to work alongside SW as an attacking/structural coach.

But Wane also needs to make the time to do what Maguire did before joining us and go off and learn from other sports.

Many years ago, we sacked our coaches when we had just won the cup because the directors knew that we needed something different to take us onto the next level.

In 2009 Lenegan did exactly the same with Noble when it was clear his job had been done and we needed something extra.

In 2017, Sadly I think a similar decision may need to be taken.

All coaches have a shelf life and sadly I think Wane has reached the end of his at Wigan,it happens in sport if IL allows this to carry on then we will I suspect be facing what Warrington have just gone through and we all know how that ended up.

Unfortunately I think that is probably correct.
Unless SW accepts he needs help or possibly a different direction then a new guy must come in.
His interview after the Wakey was a little sad. He wanted to sound angry but his eyes just looked forlorn.
Not totally sure if he is a good guy let down by his players or if he has reached his limit.
I won't rejoice if he goes but unless he is prepared to change I think he will inevitably depart.
As much as I dislike the tactics senior players must also take responsibility. Player of the year is Davies who has embarrassed the majority of the first squad who have shown very little appetite for a long slog.or even turn up when it really matters

For me, Far too many players have returned having left the club whilst in good form and come back a shadow of their former self. Joel Tomkins has never been the same since his return, Sam Tomkins has been no where near as influential as he was prior to leaving for the NRL (I felt Morgan Escare was brilliant in the first half of the season in his place, things seemed to fall apart when he got injured) . Tommy L has looked like he has just been going through the motions, He was one of my fav players and I was gutted when he left originally but he just seems to be missing that spark that he had. Joe Burgess has spent all season talking the talk on twitter but doing very little (although admittedly he's carried knocks)

The annoying thing is some of those players have come back on big money which could have better een spent on bringing in some fresh talent.

I don't understand how a very similar set of players could be champions 12 months ago to be so poor this season. Defensively we have been terrible and that fire/desire that kept us going in previous seasons has just gone.

I can only hope that a good preseason with a fully fit squad can help us next season because I don't know where we go from here.

A season with very few postives other than the emergence of Tom Davies

You lot really don't get it do you.

Yesterday two teams turned up. One wanted to play attacking RL the other wanted to break heads.

The team wanting to break heads has been doing that for years getting steadily worse each season.

This season they gave up playing rugby altogether instead working on on the expectation that they were Wigan and thus entitled to get whatever they wanted.

Fans have always been jelous of Wigan, not me, Wigan used to be a beacon imho of how it should be done - not now.

Your team is an exact reflection of your coach, a boorish thug. Like all his kind he got away with bullying for a while but this season people got wise including some of his players and some of your fans.

You are plain awfull to watch that's the truth. Yesterday was niggle after niggle and Farrels slap that was just cringe worthy.

I don't mind tough teams but not teams coached to be dirty. After every tackle yesterday a Wakefield player seemed to emerge with an injury. That's not accidental that's deliberate.

In the end an attractive brand of RL triumphed. Sad thing is that there could and should have been two teams playing that way.

Cut out the arrogance and the thuggish EE and I'm sure you'll soon be a genuine top 4 team again - it's not nailed on - you have no god given right - but at least you'll be attempting it the right way.

Probably right in this instance but he'd have said the same whatever the circumstances. He genuinely thinks he's a stand up comedian these days.

Had a bit of lemon this morning?

Out of the last five grand finals we’ve been in four of them, but we aren’t genuine top 4 because of one bad year... funny.

Although, I would like to see Wane go, we need someone with more attacking flair and fresh ideas.

We got rid of Noble because his job had been done? What did we win in 2009? Or 2008 for that matter? Or the year before?

Not sure what you think I have to feel bitter about.

Wigan are not a local rivalry and unless we get our stadium sorted will always be a bigger club than us. I have no axe to grind it's how I see it.

Yes you've been winning can't deny that but your not attracting are you. There is no buzz around Wigan like there used to be. You have some potentially very good players but hand on heart do you enjoy watching them as much as the 80's and 90's teams - I don't, give me Cas, Hull and even W akefield any day.

Noble’s first job when he came in was to save us from relegation - job done.

His next job was to stabilise the playing side of things given the chaos that had ensued post Mike Gregory and pre his appointment. I think it’s safe to say he achieved that.

However, my point was it was quite obvious that by the end of his tenure despite providing stability, the team was probably underachieving and the playing style wasn’t improving - hence why we needed a decision to be made to take us to the next level.

Had Noble took over Maguire’s side and not Millwards it’s a fair assumption that he would have won something.

Maguire took over the same team as Noble and added Deacon to it the rest is the history books.

It's not often I agree with you but you are absolutely correct about the team.

I think us as fans generally understand the issues but the team simply don't seem to get it.

They play like a petulant set of brats. They have a clear sense of entitlement and arrogance that sadly significantly outweighs their current performance.

This whole "Wigan way" thing is a joke. The Wigan. Way should be striving to innovate and develop as a club not s throwback to 1970's bash and barge rugby.

The sign of a quality coach is one that comes in and leaves the club in a better state than it was when they took over. Wane hasn't done that. He has turned this club from a top quality side to a clueless bunch of individuals who don't seem to understand the word team.

If he loves the club as much as he claims to he shouldn't make it a difficult decision for IL he should just walk away.

I'm sure he is a great bloke but the players don't want to play for him, the fans have been distanced from the club and the performances on the field have been well below par.

Time for some fresh ideas and to move on from the Wigan way of jobs for the boys culture that has re-emerged.

Hardly helps matters seeing pictures of players out on the pi$$ last nighr without a care in the world.

true but Noble had a harder job, the club was broken when Noble took over and was quite stable when madge took over, granted he took them to another level but like the poster said most coaches could have took the team with the ethos and staff etc and won things

Give over they're entitled to a night out after a very bad few weeks at work just like anybody else is. We all know (and so do they) that they've underperformed but they're men and a night out isn't a major issue. Had it been the night before the Cas game fair enough but it's after their season is over.

Completely agree - the strategy of re-signing old players has been an unmitigated disaster and completely handcuffed the club in terms of playing staff.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing isn't it?

If the club had allowed Sam Tomkins to go to Wire, Leuluai to go to Saints, Burgess to go to Leeds which were all strongly rumoured, the same fans on here would have been outraged!

The club did the right thing bringing them back but the season has not gone well. I'm still glad we didn't allow any of thes players, Joel included to go anywhere else.

Not hindsight when Mossop was garbage before he went, nobody has come back from RU a better player and Leuluai was always a better hooker than half. Like I said a disaster all of the club's making.

I wouldn't have been bothered with any of the scenarios you mentioned.

This forum almost blew up when ST was rumoured to Wire and slightly less frantic when TL was rumoured to Saints. You may have not been bothered but I assure you, you were in a very small minority.

I have to agree with you 100% on this post.

This forum was filled with real anxiety and angst at some of our top players at the club leaving to go to RU and the NRL going back just a couple of years. People were speaking about the player drain, how the salary cap was unworkable and how playing for Wigan put you in this huge shop window to be picked off by the riches of Australia or the other code. It probably wasn't everybody but there was a general feeling of comfort when it emerged players like Mossop, Sam T and Joel were likely to return in the future. They were sold for fees and people were happy when these players returned costing less to bring back than the fees we received for them. It seemed like great business. I'm not picking on Mossop as such but just using him as an example because it obviously didn't work out for him and he has since moved on.

I'd like to think bringing some new blood into the club either via an attack coach or a new head coach that players like Joel and Sam T would be given a real shake and we would see something like their old form. My concern with Joel is I actually felt sorry for him leaving the field against Wakefield and that these injuries just won't go away.

The only player I raised an eyebrow at re-signing was Tommy in place of Matty Smith but even then he and Budgie re-signing was rightly met with a warm response (especially Burgess). I hoped Tommy would feature sparingly at hooker with Sam and even Shorrocks playing at half back and Escare at 1. I don't think this was ever the plan sadly given he was handed the 7 jersey and injuries haven't helped. A few fans who sit near me were calling for Matty Smith to leave for most of last season because they believed his passing was woeful, his kicking was poor and his goalkicking was atrocious and how Tommy would improve us in 2017. Tommy's form at 7 this year has really highlighted their foolishness but as this poster I've quoted says hindsight is a wonderful thing.

I don't speak for other people, only myself. So my opinion on the disastrous old boys signing strategy has nothing to do with what other people were thinking on this forum.

I'm nostalgic and was happy to see them all come back but ultimately most haven't worked out. I think Burgess is carrying a couple of knocks and a stone too much in weight, that when rectified will certainly mean that's the right call. The San Tomkins move is one that could also still bear fruit. He's been pretty good these past few months (bar the last two weeks) but clearly he needs to move in to the halves as he's not fast enough to play full back anymore.

The other moves though (Leuluai, Joel, Mossop etc) have been worthless. They've probably cost us a lot of money and they've not added enough to the team. I feel a little for Joel, he looks pretty much finished with his knees imo (injured again yesterday) and that's robbed him of any chance of making a decent impact.

Apologies in advance for a bit of an 'I told you so' post. The writing was on the wall with Tomkins long before he arrived back in the country. I said at the time it was announced he was heading back to Wigan that he'd turn out to be a very expensive flop (which resulted in a fair few of your lot biting and claiming he'd be back to his best). You could tell from his form in the NRL that he'd lost some speed, strength and bottle - that arrogant swagger had gone as he wasn't able to run rings around terrible defences in the NRL, and he's never recovered from that.

A more worrying point in general is how far back yourselves, us (Leeds), Saints and Wire have slipped in terms of standards over the last few years. I've been saying for a couple of months that I think Leeds can actually win the comp, and whilst I'll very much enjoy it if they do, with the standard of the current Leeds team, it would be an absolute embarrassment to the game over here.

Well it clearly didn't do the right thing in that they have all so far, failed. Though as I said elsewhere Sam T and Burgess still have a chance to prove otherwise. And it is not hindsight if you think the policy blinded them from looking at other players or properly considering even if we needed any of them back. I think IL wanted to prove his strategy of getting players to sign a bit of paper that said they will return worked. I bet when these players became available he was delighted to be able to put this policy into action and there was no way they were not going to get signed.

When he first came up with the idea I thought it was daft because I assumed they would all be successful, earning a fortune and so we had seen the last of them in a Wigan shirt again. If they had been and yet had returned in top form it would have been a no-brainer to sign them but every single one bar TL came back under a cloud but we still signed them.

Hopefully this is a lesson learned and the club doesn't guarantee players who leave an easy way out and furthermore doesn't rush to give them one.