we'll see.

It's all about expectations I suppose as well as value for money. There is huge expectation on Tomkins due to his reputation, past achievements for Wigan and because of the salary he's paid whereas there was little expectation on Escare as he'd fell out of favour at Catalans and I presume is (or was) on a low wage here.

In plain black and white it looks like they're bringing about the same to the side for vastly differing sums of money but I think we were probably seeing Tomkins at his worst against Escare possibly somewhere near his best.

Long term I think there's room for both and the side will be in good shape with them both in it.

Yep we definitely will

Good post. I've always loved Sam. But I think his future is in the halves as he no longer has the pace of his youth. He is the best passer of the ball in the club including Lockers and he kicks better than both George and Tommy. Just a question mark over his defence I suppose. Though I think he will be fine.

In the line his defence is fine (or it was when he last played as a halfback). Like most fullbacks he gets caught out defensively as the last line but he's up to the task of dealing with the increased workload if he is to go back to stand off/scrum half IMO.

Escare's kicking from hand is I think superior and I'm sure his goal kicking is better.
What statistics don't show is that ST looks like a startled rabbit under the high ball and Escare has brought a sense of control and composure to the defence that ST I don't think is capable of. Any guy who lets a high ball bounce on a regular basis as ST did isn't really a FB.

Id be pretty amazed if ST didn't go into the halves rather than back to FB. Personally I want ST to get his hands on the ball as often as he can to give him maximum opportunity to cause havoc in the attack and he can do this from 6.
As most have said it will be a nice problem for SW to juggle

Seriously?

With the displays from these two this year, i wonder how this has affected Charnleys options if he is unhappy in RU... BTW, i have no idea how well or badly he is doing there, don't care much either.

I've always thought Burgess was more suited to centre in the long term anyway, and now he's physically matured, and Davies and Marshall have emerged, I think now is the perfect time to move him to centre. His pace, size, hands and ability to run excellent lines are more suited to centre anyway. Plus, his kick returns have always been the weakest part of his game, so moving him out of the back 3 would nullify that.
I'd even be tempted to play him in the centres for England against Samoa.

Yes I am.
Do you seriously rate ST defensively at FB?
Fantastic going forward but pretty poor under the high ball to the point that he brings too much uncertainty to the team.
Just an opinion but it will take a lot to shift it

I think you have a pre formed opinion on the matter. As the stats just outlined, he missed less tackles than escare has, and made less errors (which would include knock ons).

As good as Escaré has been for us, anyone who thinks he's a better fullback than ST really should watch something else. I will confidently predict much egg on many faces when ST returns at full fitness.

Did you go to or see the the first Cas away game last year? Sam was absolutely superb defensively and a BIG part of why/how we won that game.

I think defensively Escare is better than ST.
Do I think Escare is a better player? Absolutely not.
I just think that unless ST can regain his pace from 4 or 5 years ago ( yes it's that long ago) he will be better the halfs.
I'm not anti ST and would love it if he could rekindle his superb form pre his move toNZ.k

J I'm not a stats man.
My opinion has been formed by watching ST since his return and comparing that to another player.
It's purely subjective.
I'm an avid ST fan and just think he would be better at 6 where he can do more damage and would hopefully improve us across the park in attack.

Yes. Can I remember a superb defensive display? Not particularly.
So am I to believe you consider ST to be a consistently good FB since his return?
Have you never seen him have a poor game or is he beyond criticism?
I'm not having a dig at him I just think someone has come along who is probably better than him right now in that position and offers pretty good potential in the future in that position.
In my view ANY fullback who lets a high ball bounce deliberately (and ST did that a few times and statistically won't be considered an error) ain't a good defensive FB.

I want ST to return and play a major role in hopefully a successful season. I just think that at the moment that for would be at 6 with Williams at 7.

I completely agree. If anybody thinks ST has been fully fit at any point during his 2nd stint at Wigan are simply wrong. He hasn't been fully fit and probably won't be until next season when he gets a full preseason in him. That said, an 80% fit ST will still be a devastating addition to our squad and I can't wait for him to come back.
Escare is going great and I'm delighted we've pinned him down long term. That said, ST has EARNED the right to be given a fair opportunity to prove his fitness and his worth to the team having single handedly won a shedful of games for us with his incredible talent. When he's fit, i'd put him straight in at FB and I'd be very patient with him. He'll not set the world on fire straight away but I'm confident he'll get back to being one of the best players in the competition this season.

I am not sure ST has earned anything - the player who did that is a long time gone. I think it is more a case of he owes the club - given that they are paying him a huge wage, he came back from the NRL injured and missed a lot of game time, came back played a few half decent games then got injured and since missed a lot of games (and has there ever been a fully official version of how he got injured?????).

The ST before he want to the NRL may have credit in the bank but since then I would say he has to earn a place back in the team just like anyone else, especially if that means displacing someone who is trying his heart out and not doing a lot wrong. Hopefully Wane will adopt the same approach.

There is also a big question over if ST will ever be anywhere near the player he was.

I petty much watched every minute of his 16 games last season and up until cas away in the 8's he was very good defensively, pretty sure he didn't drop a high ball and I could be mistaken but didn't see him let a ball bounce either.
The lads I stand with had a bit of joke thing going on about it has been 1 game, then 2 games, then 3 games without him dropping a high ball and I'm pretty sure I remember it getting to 10 plus (we used to have joke about the, when would kris radlinksi break a tackle when returning the ball stakes, I used to bet June every year).
Cas in the 8s he was poor, he was average week after but by the time we got to warrington away he put in another good display and got us back in the game just before half time and setting up 2/3 tries second half.

I like escare, he's been a very good signing. I don't need to criticise anything he's done (and he has made errors and has flaws) to try and prove Tomkins is a better full back etc and I do think people are worrying about Tomkins wage packet or his injury rather thank taking his performances on face value and I think people should do the same the other way.

We've got 2 really good options at full back and I want them both fit, we've now good another 2 great options on the wing in Davies and Marshall bit I want budgie back there and Manfredi fit asap along with gildart.
I want Tommy back fully fit as I am convinced we will.see so much more from him when fit along with more options like a fit gelling, Bateman etc outside him.

When same is back and near full fitness then wane will have a question or 2 to answer, until then it's a moot point.
When he is and say 90% of the squad are fit then we'll see who the boss thinks is the right one to play there.
Moving forward I think you may be right about Sam in the halves, but I can see that being a steady process over the next 18months.

I didn't say the FB position is his for good but I stand by my comment that he has earned the right to prove himself. If he plays and is poor after being given a fair crack then he should be replaced.

He's not been the same since he came back from NZ because he's never been fully fit. He played a few half decent games last season and I think the Warrington game when Flower was sent off, he was a huge factor in that win.

I'm confident he'll get back to being one of the best in SL, even if he plays a different game than he used to!

Excellent post which pretty much sums up my opinion too.

These two were impressive again today. Bruce had his best game yet aswell!

I'm really glad Forsyth went well. He's had a mixed time of it in the first team with some good and bad showings but he always puts a shift in and he seems to be gaining some confidence.

Tom Davies looks a real athlete. His two try's today were proper wingers try's showing pace and anticipation. He must be thrilled with how his first team career has gone so far.

Davies and Marshall are both in front of Tierney now for me, both dangerous and work hard, without the frailties of Tierney.

They both look like wingers, with pure winger instincts rather than a converted winger which Tierney is having played fullback a lot when he was younger. Can't fault Davies and Marshall, they're learning on the job a bit earlier than expected but not showing any major weaknesses. Definitely a pleasant surprise to add to the squad this season.