For me it's more about what he didn't do than what he did do.

We made more than enough chances to win that game. But close in we look alarmingly incapable of opening even half-assed defences, so what chance a well-marshalled defence like last night? And ultimately the key to that is supposed to lie with your half-backs.

Exactly the same thing happened at St. Helens. We kept getting to their line but that was always the end of it.

He seems a smashing lad, Matty, but I just don't think he's got enough ideas. We can't go on failing to execute like this. Not after it's cost us a Grand Final. I don't know what the options are, but surely we are now considering some?

How long as Smith left on is contract, never like him lost us games when kicking for goal all we are short of is a decent half back to pare up with Williams ( Hampshire ) and a decent kicker.

offer Bowen another year , put Sam 6, Williams 7 and still have Smith and Hampshire as back ups ?

Clubb was ill for two days before the match and was on a glucose drip and perhaps shouldn't have played. I was surprised when he actually played.

Quote ="Ashton Bears"How long as Smith left on is contract, never like him lost us games when kicking for goal all we are short of is a decent half back to pare up with Williams ( Hampshire ) and a decent kicker.'" Smith signed a new 4 year contract last September. Daft decision in my eyes. It would no doubt have infuriated our academy players. www.skysports.com/rugby-league/n ... n-warriors

Quote ="Ashton Bears"How long as Smith left on is contract, never like him lost us games when kicking for goal all we are short of is a decent half back to pare up with Williams ( Hampshire ) and a decent kicker.'" Smith signed a new 4 year contract last September. Daft decision in my eyes. It would no doubt have infuriated our academy players. www.skysports.com/rugby-league/n ... n-warriors

I don't understand how Rocky can't buy a game in the halves whilst Smith remains undropable. He must be doing something I can't see because to be it looks like he often goes missing in attack, doesn't have any real flair when he does get involved and is a poor defender.

Defensively he's a worry and has gone backwards. He is getting swatted off with ease recently and has missed some big tackles.

I think last night proved just how much Matty is holding us back. He stuck out like a sore thumb and this guy is being trusted right in the middle to create things and control the game (which he fails to do every week)

I appreciate he gives 100% but a Matty Smith 100% just isn't good enough i am afraid and he is not only halting the progress of others in his position but is also halting the progress of the team from making the step up. Time to go. Waney needs to show some balls and pick the team with head over heart.

bump (just to help those merging threads)

I've just watched the game again. Smith had a poor game no doubt about it. I think he just lost his composure after dropping that kick off and then also Bowens pass.He hasn't got a running game so we needed him to give us direction with his passing and more importantly kicking, sadly he did neither. Looking at the match stats there is no way Wigan should have lost that game. www.superleague.co.uk/report/11372

I've just watched the game again. Smith had a poor game no doubt about it. I think he just lost his composure after dropping that kick off and then also Bowens pass.He hasn't got a running game so we needed him to give us direction with his passing and more importantly kicking, sadly he did neither. Looking at the match stats there is no way Wigan should have lost that game. www.superleague.co.uk/report/11372

Just popped on here to read your thoughts about last night. As a neutral I enjoyed the game.

As for Smith I think he is a decent player who obviously has a great attitude and is a good influence off the pitch too. It would be a mistake to have Williams and Hampshire as your halves. I don't think you can have two kids at half back and expect them to play well consistently, it would harm their development. I'd put Hampshire at full back next year with Williams and Tomkins in the halves and look for Hampshire to move up to stand off once Tomkins retires or moves on.

You are quite right, and if the two youngsters played together and fail, it will still be Wane's faulty for playing them.. He is in a very difficult position. I honestly think he would like to play them, but he has to win games.

Quote ="Rogues Gallery"I've just watched the game again. Smith had a poor game no doubt about it. I think he just lost his composure after dropping that kick off and then also Bowens pass.He hasn't got a running game so we needed him to give us direction with his passing and more importantly kicking, sadly he did neither. Looking at the match stats there is no way Wigan should have lost that game. www.superleague.co.uk/report/11372'" I beg to differ, I said to the chap next to me that we were making more yards but we were clueless and predictable with the ball. Four tries to three is the important stat and was exactly the point and my main worry all game. Leeds are always a threat, even when teams are on top, we aren't as dangerous when under pressure and when we are on top we aren't crafty enough to capitalise. We lost that game through lack of ideas and poor choices with the ball, not through stats and meters made. Those stats say to me that we did the hard work, made more yards and didn't put the points on the board. Stats don't tell you about movement and dummy runners off the ball, that's where we lacked and why we were predictable.

Quote ="Rogues Gallery"I've just watched the game again. Smith had a poor game no doubt about it. I think he just lost his composure after dropping that kick off and then also Bowens pass.He hasn't got a running game so we needed him to give us direction with his passing and more importantly kicking, sadly he did neither. Looking at the match stats there is no way Wigan should have lost that game. www.superleague.co.uk/report/11372'" I beg to differ, I said to the chap next to me that we were making more yards but we were clueless and predictable with the ball. Four tries to three is the important stat and was exactly the point and my main worry all game. Leeds are always a threat, even when teams are on top, we aren't as dangerous when under pressure and when we are on top we aren't crafty enough to capitalise. We lost that game through lack of ideas and poor choices with the ball, not through stats and meters made. Those stats say to me that we did the hard work, made more yards and didn't put the points on the board. Stats don't tell you about movement and dummy runners off the ball, that's where we lacked and why we were predictable.

I've been saying the same thing for two years. We have tried it in the past and it failed Edwards/Holden, Brown/Robinson. Saints tried it with Lomax/Gaskell. Hopefully Hampshire stays in the system and goes on loan for 12 months and then comes back to play at #6 with Williams #7. The alternative would be to use him and/or Williams off the bench for few games, but coaches tend not to have a back substitute.

Aside from the dropped ball neither of our halves stood out. No movement and nothing for the Leeds defenders to second guess, one man rugby all game with the same predictable people attempting to hit gaps with no dummy runners to take defenders out. Our halves were on a hiding to nothing, for which I lay the blame with Wane, his game plan and his problem to fix. We scored from a kick that wasn't planned out, it was on the back of a poor last play and then a moment of brilliance from Bowen. No great attacking play to create any doubt, the Leeds defenders could see what was coming every play and it was easy to defend.

I think our attack has gone massively downhill since Harris left. Need some fresh ideas over the off-season.

It's always a risk playing two young halves together and it generally hasn't worked. However, does that mean we continue to rely on Smith even though he simply isn't good enough. He's stood out as our weakest first team player right from the start of the season. The only times he plays well are against the weakest of defences or when it's so wet that it's nearly impossble to play rugby. His defence has been well below par all year. Of course we do have another option in Sam Powell. He actually played well on the right against Huddersfield early in the year. He's more experienced than Hampshire and it means Smith could spell hooker (he may defend better surrounded by the big men down the middle) or Waterworth could get some opportunities.

I just don't see the Smith to hooker routine. His defence isn't great and his passing isn't either so just don't see what he could bring to the role.
I would prefer MM to play 80 minutes every game that he plays.

When talking about tough decisions with Smith I think that call should just be that he's out of the 17. He isn't a hooker anyway and whilst you could say that about Powell also, his defence is robust.

If we throw the following back line at teams next year they'll be more wary then facing a side with Smith in it-

1-Tomkins
2-Manfredi
3-Sarginson
4-Gildart/Gelling
5-Charnley
6-Hampshire
7-Williams

It's a young back line but it's got everything in my opinion and could develop in to one of the best we've had at the club.

Getting picked in the England side is the worst thing that could've happened to him at the moment. Yet more abuse will be hurled at him by opposition and his own fans. He seems to be severely lacking in confidence at the moment.

No he's not had a great season, his main asset is his kicking and that's been well off but It's still there. He's no world beater but he's reliable, a cool head and a good organiser. Williams wouldn't be able to do half the brilliant stuff he does without Smith calling the shots from the back. Last night he did have a nightmare but it's not like he can't do it in big games. I saw somebody say he's not a great passer which I completely disagree with!

I don't buy Hampshire in the halves with Williams, I think that'd be a disaster with both just running at the line every other tackle and the team not knowing what's going on.

Smith needs his own fans to get behind him, he was a stand out player in 2013 when we won the double and I'm sure he can get back on form again. Contrary to the opinion in 2013 most people now seem to be suggesting that he was carried as a poor player in a good side in 2013!

We looked clueless when near the line, which is exactly why I'd pair Hampshire with Williams.

They're both skillful, off the cuff players who like to attack the line and have pace.

Well we had Tomkins and Green in 2013 so he was always 3rd playmaker. I'm not suggesting he was carried but he's never been a dominant half and never will be.

The worst thing is that he hasn't improved at all even following an England tour and playing in numerous finals and big games. If anything he's regressed a lot. Compare his kicking in the CCF 2013 to last night for example. I don't get how a player can just lose a skill set like that.

I think he was equally as important as Green in 2013 in both the CC (far more so in that game) and GF.
I don't think he's just lost it I really think it's a confidence thing. He has had some good games this year, I think he played very well in the semi.

The whole side has been patchy this season but I think fans should stick by a player who has proven in the past that they're good enough. I personally think Micky Mc has had a poor season but nobody lambasts him for it. These are human beings not computer game characters, every player goes through a rough patch. I think Wigan fans have become so entitled that they expect perfection from everybody. I have no doubt that he'll do the job for us next season.

Lots of good points here..

It really wasn't a knock-on. Watch it back without the emotion of it bein your team in a couple of weeks time and you'll realise.

The ball did come out of his hands forward, but it didn't then hit the floor or an opposition player, it hit his own leg (which isn't a knock on, it's the same as juggling it in your own hands) and then goes sideways/even backwards off his leg.

It really was fine.