Must ... not ... engage. You cannot argue with a brick.

I'm on the Wigan page, i don't expect a love in and wait for the extreme partisan response, but the truth is no one else cares about Wigans gripe with Tomkins going to NRL to better himself, i'm chuffed for him as i would be any player that went there.

Which just about says it all.

PS: No ... he still isn't going to sign for you lot when his current contract is over.

I'm aware of that, i don't think anyone in SL will see him in their shirt again, not even mega bucks Salford.

And yet you're chuffed about it. Sweet.

No, i'm happy for him to fullfill his dreams.

"Ignoring your passion is slow suicide, never ignore what your heart pumps for, mould your career around your lifestyle not your lifestyle around your career"

Good on you. You deserve a badge for being such an all-round understanding guy, and for there not being a hint of parochial small-mindedness in your make-up.

But that doesn't lessen by one iota the talent drain problem our game currently faces.

I entirely agree with the sentiment Cruncher. It's just strange that when I made my feelings known on the ST saga I was castigated by some for my negativity.....
Edit
Also IMO he did bugger all on day 2 of the tournament.

I think it's the Burgess thing that's put it more into context for me even than the Tomkins defection.

The thought that even the gold-plated NRL may be no protection when the likes of Bath are looking to plug another gap is pretty heart-breaking.

The Burgess thing won't happen.
Bath would have to pay a fortune to Sydney, all though Bath can afford to pay a massive wage and a massive transfer fee IF all went to plan and Burgess made the England set up then he would be central contracted and not play for Bath, a massive outlay for a player they'd hardly see in a Bath shirt.
They wanted help funding the transfer from the RFU but the other clubs vetoed, why should they all help to pay to make a rival stronger.
Unless the club's budge or Bath take the full hit for little domestic reward it won't happen.
The NRL has actually helped here inadvertently because they would demand massive amount of compensation. If he was playing in SL, the cost to the RFU would be minimal.
The RFU has to get them while they're over here or wait until the contracts in the NRL run out.
Or someone has more than than sense funds a player that could potentially flop, it's too much of a risk.
In short, people are making more of this than is necessary.

#NRL South Sydney Rabbitohs has been offered $1m by UK Rugby Union to release Sam Burgess from is current contract. www.smh.com.au/rugby-league/leag ... 2546448552

#NRL South Sydney Rabbitohs has been offered $1m by UK Rugby Union to release Sam Burgess from is current contract. www.smh.com.au/rugby-league/leag ... 2546448552

Sounds like he's gone then. I'm really surprised and frustrated with this move. The surprise is that I don't see him having a position in Union so I can't see why they're so desperate for him. The frustration comes from the realisation that the NRL isn't the safety blanket we thought it was. I'd hoped that the NRL would be strong enough to keep our best English players in league at a time when the English game simply doesn't have the finances to but it looks like it's not to be.

Crushing blow for English rugby league. The World Cup was hugely positive for the game over here but only a couple of months after it finished we've lost our best player. Our chances of getting one over Australia or even NZ anytime soon look to be gone.

Quote ="Wigan Peer"#NRL South Sydney Rabbitohs has been offered $1m by UK Rugby Union to release Sam Burgess from is current contract. www.smh.com.au/rugby-league/leag ... 2546448552'" Awesome. Just the news we wanted at the start of a big week for RL. In answer to NK's question about why they would want him, I suspect it's because the RU machinery in Britain consistently fails to produce players with the high level skills required for international level rugby, and they don't know how to remedy it - that can surely the only reason why an automatic international call-up clause always seems to be built into their contract. I don't remember any Union converts being fast-tracked into the RL national team. Most of them took months and months to learn the basics; Inga wasn't even fit enough to train with the rest of the Wigan team. When we got Andy Powell, I thought we'd get a good couple of years out of an infamous Union enforcer. I don't know what went wrong, but he doesn't seem to have impressed anyone.

Quote ="Wigan Peer"#NRL South Sydney Rabbitohs has been offered $1m by UK Rugby Union to release Sam Burgess from is current contract. www.smh.com.au/rugby-league/leag ... 2546448552'" Awesome. Just the news we wanted at the start of a big week for RL. In answer to NK's question about why they would want him, I suspect it's because the RU machinery in Britain consistently fails to produce players with the high level skills required for international level rugby, and they don't know how to remedy it - that can surely the only reason why an automatic international call-up clause always seems to be built into their contract. I don't remember any Union converts being fast-tracked into the RL national team. Most of them took months and months to learn the basics; Inga wasn't even fit enough to train with the rest of the Wigan team. When we got Andy Powell, I thought we'd get a good couple of years out of an infamous Union enforcer. I don't know what went wrong, but he doesn't seem to have impressed anyone.

So they found their big backer with more money than sense, I know RU has the money but it isn't sustainable and they seem to be going down the 3rd party route of the NRL, they're risking a lot for an unproven player though.

Folau was a bit of a signal for that. I wish they'd fight back and try to get some Celtic/European players that have room to improve their skills and fitness and help our international game out.

The irony hurts.... Just what we have Been telling you Wire fans for the last couple of years...

This must rank along side Paddy Crerands "Sir Alex won't retire anytime soon" interview (3 hours before he retired).




I keep saying to myself that one day I should start a thread and quote posters from other sites who lose all sense of rational thought when the name Wigan is mentioned on all kinds of various subjects.
Then later want to be taken seriously as some kind of intellectual Think Tank on all things RL and want us to believe they are being fair and rational towards Wigan in their thought processes.

That way we could call out these guys using some of their previous mind blowing thoughts on their hatred of Wigan to put into context their thoughts on any given subject that impacts on Wigan and the game?

"Unless the club's budge or Bath take the full hit."

"Or someone has more money than sense"

There you go

Ahhh so what you really meant when you came on here mocking Wigan fans for being paranoid, self-interested and undeserving of sympathy, and telling people the Burgess issue was a non-starter, was that we were only being paranoid, self-interested etc, and that Burgess was going nowhere ... UNLESS someone came along with a big wedge.

Pity you didn't say that the first time. You'd look a lot less stupid.

interesting reading this thread.

Suprised that people wouldn't view Tomkins as an ambassador for the Wigan brand in the NRL.

Even though he plays for someone else , you lot made him, so I really don't get that.

I come from a different world however. One where half the NRL is populated by my countrymen playing for clubs other than the NZ franchise.

Ergo you tend to swell with pride when any of 'your lot' play well anywhere.

The bit I really, really, (spice girls) really don't get is the Aussies recon Your Sam isn't good enough.

So why wouldn't you want one of your ex players to get one over them, and revel in it ?

Like I say just don't get it. Even after reading the arguments. Seems the glass is half full.

if an englishman took an whinny Aussie's opinion to heart there would be no more Australia haha. They have no concept of whats good for the game all they care about is State of Origin (losing its best appeal from be sanitised) and NRL. only have to listen to the media before this game on the weekend they are building excuses for both scenarios already, Wigan win well the sydney roosters where underdone ( can't use we had to get on a plan excuse thank god) and if Sydney win its just well we knew the Pom's are rubbish at rugby compared to us no mention of how the squad has lost most of its leaders.

Though I suspect you post in good faith, I have to say that this post completely encapsulates the attitude and the ignorance of the NRL where the British game is concerned.

What you are basically saying is that we should be glad/proud that Sam has attracted your interest.

My response to that would be "do some homework on the state of RL in Britain".

We are a very small, very under-marketed sport in the UK, and we suffer massively from the ludicrously OTT attention heaped by the national media on football and RU. We also have an across-the-board cash crisis. Thanks to years of mismanagement by various people in the game, we only have Sky TV to thank for our existence, so they call all the shots and are basically keeping us on a starvation diet. In sponsorship terms, the RFL couldn't organise a booze-up in a bar, so we suffer on that front too. The current salary cap in the UK, which in reality was imposed to prevent clubs going bust, has done no such thing, and is acting now to reduce even the average players' wages and to savagely restrict the earning potential for our top players. Despite this, we are still able to put on a great show and entertain sizeable crowds. We are also able to win trophies, and Wigan in particular are still a big brand in Australia - yet the whole thing sits on a knife-edge. There is a very strong feeling in the UK that professional rugby league may soon be due to crash and burn.

It hardly helps, therefore, when vultures from all over the world - the RU to start with (who seem completely incapable of producing players of their own who can compete at modern levels), and the NRL too (who don't, which makes it an even bigger sin from our POV), descend on our depleted ranks and start cherry-picking all the best players.

For the British game to do well, it needs its star players in its own domestic league, not working 'as ambassadors' in other parts of the world. I mean, what is an ambassador likely to do anyway, other than further the interest in our junior ranks?

We have lost so much vital talent in recent years. But the loss of Sam Tomkins was especially bad. Sam wasn't just a star player for Wigan, he was the main face of RL in Britain. For the first time in years, we had a kid who the rest of the nation was impressed by and interested in. So when you say we should be happy he is working as an ambassador in New Zealand, the reality is it was much more useful to us when he was working as an ambassador here in Britain.

If that was the only instance, it would perhaps be forgiveable, but it isn't. From last year, we've not just lost our best back, we lost our best forward as well - to add to the losses from previous years. Now we've got Andrew Voss shouting about Russell Crowe signing up Joe Burgess, our next new starlet, and we hear that Josh Charnley, our current wing sensation, is being wined and dined by NRL scouts. And that's just Wigan. Top players from other clubs have also defected in recent seasons. It's actually become part of the narrative that anyone who's any good in British RL will leave the game in some way long before he's reached his full potential.

On top of that, the Sam Burgess saga suggests that even you lot aren't all you're cracked up to be - when we lose our stars to the NRL now we can't even console ourselves with the knowledge they'll still be available to the England team, because apparently they won't be for very long. It seems the NRL is just like us, no more than an unimportant backwater compared to international RU.

And yet you've got the nerve to lecture us about the glass being half full. That takes some beating.

Not at all fellah.
Like I say I'm from a different League model.
The New Zealand Model.
The one where you lose almost all your players to the ESL or NRL as par for the course.
Accordingly It's an adjustment mechanism to see the glass as half full.

In no way did I think you should celebrate losing a player to the NRL and that it proves his worth now.

You read me all wrong there. What I don't get is now that it has happened.....why would people post that they can't even be glad for one of their sons doing well over there.

We in NZ have learned to accept that when ours go to England and do well...or to Australia....that is part of life and We wish them well.

It's just another way of looking at the situation ( not an ideal model lol but it's just part of the deal for us...I find you get more joy that way than the other ).

Certainly I do not think the NRL is the be all and end all and superior to the ESL.

We just haven't had television coverage of the ESL here.

Now that it is delayed I watch my weekly game with interest , especially My favorite ESL team Wigan.

By the Way I picked that Wigan would thrash the NZ Warriors team in hamilton and posted in your threads.

No NRL Arrogance in that is there.....I drove Four Hundred Miles in total to see Wigan train here then play the following day.....I hope that gets me some Wigan Street cred.

It wasn't aimed at you personally, so I apologise if it came over that way. But whether you meant to display NRL arrogance or not, that's how it appeared.

We are in the midst of a major but silent crisis in the British game. Major because we cannot afford to lose the few riches we have. Silent because the RFL won't admit to it. Yes, our own governing body is our main problem, but what can we do about that?

The player drain isn't the only issue - it's actually only one symptom of our financial failings, but it's a very serious symptom, and it's getting worse and worse - and it really galls to see our so-called Allies in the NRL not only showing no awareness of that, but actively revelling in it as if we now only produce top-quality players to boost their ranks.

When British clubs first started losing talent they couldn't afford to lose - the likes of Andy Farrell (spit!), Jason Robinson and Iestyn Harris, it wasn't a complete catastrophe. Some were veterans, others had done long years in domestic RL. But the target age has crept steadily down. Every year now it seems we lose some up-and-coming quality (and those who come back are either like Karl Pryce and Lee Smith, who were completely ruined by only a short spell in RU, or like Gareth Ellis, who gave his best years to the NRL and is now finished).

You may have lost players too, but a lot of yours go to the NRL, which at least you are part of, and thanks to that umbrella, you're not facing a slow meltdown back to semi-amateur status.

Unless I'm completely misreading your club's situation, I don't think there's much of a comparison between NZW and the ESL.

But even if there is, that doesn't help us. We cannot afford to lose our few star players. But we are doing. It's very difficult to celebrate that in any shape or form.

Hmm appreciate the run down, makes it a lot clearer. Given the threat to the Game from the top down Indeed the Loss of Tomkins and others is symptomatic and little cheer is to be found in that climate.
It's a real worry.
We've had some dark days here , very dark....the sports funding agency here ( SPARK ) were asked for money by the NZRL.
They were happy to fund sports like Show Jumping and Womens rowing but wouldn't touch Rugby League in NZ with a barge poll.
The upshot of it ( and the best thing that could have happened ) was that SPARK came up with a list of ultimatums before they would Bail Rugby league out....the Key ones were the sacking of the board.

The board resigned because they had no choice , they had run the sport into the ground on the verge of collapse without Sparks money.

Ironically a Brit was brought in to run the NZRL ( Jim Doyle ) and we are doing well now after several years of hard work.
Sounds like a similar revolution is essential for the long term survival of the Game over there.

By the way. Linking up with the NZW for the WCC prep was a good move in my opinion. It has been hot in Auckland , similar conditions to Sydney.

Wigan have been training in the heat of the day here ( the Hamilton training season was at midday full sun , fresh off the plane ). The NZW training facilities are as good as any in the NRL since the Multi Million dollar upgrade.

I'm sure both squads got a lot out of sharing the grounds at Mt Smart Stadium and more importantly picking the NZW brains about strategies for playing the Roosters.

Our Record against the Roosters is fairly even in the win loss stakes dating back to 1995 when the club entered the comp.

The NZW don't fear the Roosters and take a very aggressive / positive mindset into those games.

We played them twice last year.

Round two they were rusty and we were rubbish but put in a good effort and lost by two points.

We played them again in June when they had cemented themselves as the team to beat.

We Gave them a hell of a war and they lost.

I hope Wigan do them.....not long now.