Yes he does. This is Wigan RL we are talking about, not St Pats Under 18s.

A schoolboy could work out that it is the playoffs that are vital under the current structure. If Wane cannot then he needs to be removed.

There is no denying his passion and he is a very likeable guy, but he really must learn from his first season in charge. There is absolutely no point in thrashing teams in Feb, only to falter in Sept.

You can top the league and then go on to win a Grand Final you know.

It is pointless being so absolute. You just make yourself look foolish.

You said the same about Madge and see how that turned out.

I appreciate his dedication to Wigan but find him easily dislikeable. I am not sure there are many outside Wigan who do.

Didn't Noble get criticised by some Wigan fans for not getting the "Week in Week out performances" right and instead focussing too much on "Being Right come Play off time"?

Maybe he was right after all?

That would say more about people who dislike anything or anyone assosicated to Wigan RL than it does about him?

Most non wigan fans would hate baby jesus if he was seen in a wigan shirt though. just a natural reaction!

Erm, Leeds are the exception rather than the rule y'know

Wane came within a couple of points of taking you to OT. Had you got there I'm pretty sure you too would have beaten Wire. For all the flak he's copping about taking the regular rounds too seriously you missed out by a tiny margin. And while you've changed some players I reckon some pretty minor changes to the approaches of your coaching staff and conditioners will see you being as big a threat as anyone next season.

Exactly

I'm afraid that kind of talk isn't appreciated round these parts - either be a doom merchant typing with a knife permanently hovering just above your wrist, or never darken our door again.

It sounds disturbingly like an evocation to the Leeds blueprint, just do what’s needed to finish in a reasonable play off place, and sod half of the league games (I hope you aren’t thinking this?)because if that’s the right way to win something why don’t we all save are cash, stay at home, watch sky and come back at the end of the season when they all start to play for real. I’m starting to think I’m alone in the wilderness like that poor sod in that song from Oz, feel’n p*ssed off standing in that sweltering pub, with no beer. What’s happening to this great game of ours?

Spot on! I mean, people seem to forget that we were missing two of our key spine players in that semi final against Leeds. Not an excuse by any means but had both been able to play then who knows? As it stands we took them to 1 point from the Grand Final without our best player!

Indeed you can. The question is whether it happens more times than not and if it actually gives you the best chance of winning the GF.

History suggests that it does not. If that is being "absolute" (it isn't but I will make allowances for you) then so be it.

If you think that analysis of fact makes me look foolish then that is up to you. Everyone can make up their own mind.

Did I really say the same about Madge? I seem to remember saying it was a gamble to appoint him (which it was) and that I was pleased that it paid off (which I am).

I am not arguing that it is impossible to win the GF from 1st, rather history suggests that a focus away from finishing 1st and more on hitting the GF with form is a sensible way forward, if not THE ONLY way forward under the current rules of SL.

When we were having to endure Wigan's monopoly of RL in the 80s & 90s most people I know had nothing but admiration for the great players you had. The antipathy was reserved for a large number of your supporters. Similarly, up until Wane, I can't think of one of your coaches who I could not warm to. No doubt on the dark side of the hill feelings aren't so generous from your neighbours.

Dorahy? Hughes?

No. All he did was take inconsistent form in the weekly rounds into the playoffs.

The idea that the indifferent form in the weekly rounds was all part of a Noble master plan was if I recall put forward as an excuse back then but it was soon proved to be a fallacy as it was shown if you are inconsistent in the league due to being poor then you will be inconsistent in the playoffs. Teams need to take some kind of form into the playoffs and we never really did that under Noble.

It was blindingly obvious really. The reason the team couldn't string a decent run if league form together wasn't because Noble was spelling players or in some other way was doing stuff that meant the results went as they did with the aim of peaking at the end of the season. When the team lost, it lost more often than not with the full squad out just looking poor.

Under him we were not good enough during the season nor in the play offs. It was obvious that given the way the team played during the rounds the team was never going to win a GF under him.

FWIW I don't think any top team starts the season with the aim of finishing just anywhere in the top 8, (and preferably 5th these days!) and I don't think Noble's Wigan teams did either.

But I do think as the season draws to as close teams start to take more consideration of players welfare and won't bust a gut like we did to win the league V HKR if that means going into the play offs shattered. I also don't think a team in 5th with one round to go will go all out to finish 4th.

So what I am saying is while the league may be unimportant trophy-wise I believe all the clubs still try and win the weekly rounds until things look to have been more or less decided toward the end of the season. We didn't do that last year and due to some daft losses earlier on found ourselves having to bust a gut to win the league. Wane needs to learn from that but he has nothing to learn from Noble.

im not sure anyone would suggest that any team doesnt try to win

Alex Murphy ?

I would say that some teams have found it to their advantage not to try too hard in some games. I believe this has always been the case, but now things are becoming unacceptable in many league games IMO.

I’ve a number of reasons to be particularly fond of Joe Cool. He missed the final conversion for HKR against Cas in 1986 to give us the Challenge Cup & IIRC he was in charge when we stuffed you 33-2 in the Regal Trophy Final & 46-0 in the league in 1993/94.
Eric Hughes, I’d forgotten about.

But that is no different to any league in any sport that I can think of, whether they have play-offs or not.

The problem then was that we had a top 6 play offs, whereby it was much easier to make the final from the top 2. We also regularly had to ramp our performances at the back end of the season just to be sure of making the 6. Noble's play-off runs didn't exactly set the world alight either. Every time we won two games then came unstuck against Leeds or Saints. If, come play off time, he had got the team to a level where we could beat Saints or Leeds, many including myself may have glossed over his flaws.

All I can say is that Lenagan seems to be a bit more level headed than Wigan's typical administration. Remember West? Win everything and get sacked... (off ranting about one of Wigan's greats and the treatment from the club)

It obviously isn't in the context of our particular system. In a league you would expect there to be more kudos and more prize money for a higher league finish. So it would be worthwhile trying for a higher finish even if you were not going to win league itself. Also play off systems with fewer teams eligible to qualify for the play offs means the league games assume more importance fpr longeras you need to get in a top 5 or top 4 (for example).

That isn't the case in our system. In our system the idea is you can be crowned champions form anywhere in the top 8. So you can decide if you want to stop playing to win every game once your position in 8 is assured which is pretty early on. You could also for example decide not to try and finish 4th if you felt 5th gave an easier route which most people seem to think makes a lot of sense.

In our system if a coach wants to win the league he needs to get it won as early as possible then he can join in with the rest of the top 8 and swan about for as many games as possible before the play-offs. Wane didn't do that last year and instead had the team making that remarkable come back v HKR.

Well there is only one certainty for a coach and that is sooner or later you will be on your way. Given the way West worked for the club behind the scenes before he got the top job I was at the time concerned when the inevitable boot came he would be risking his livelihood and so it turned out. He was a real club man who worked hard on such things as the Knights of Central Park and many other things and I was (and still am) pretty disgusted at how things panned out for him.

I can't ever see IL sacking a successful coach in the way West was but I also can't see IL putting up with season after season of under-achievement either. Noble was given plenty of time to bring success and failed so off he went. Wane will also be off if things go the same way for him.

If we win a CC or GF next year I am sure IL will be pleased to extend his contract. If we do worse it will be interesting to see if given his contract is up if he gets another year.

Mind you West wasn't the only successful coach to get the boot and I don't mean Dorahay who was fired on the team bus on the way back from a CC win.

I mean Clarke and McInnes who made way for Lowe. They had not done anything wrong but I don't think anyone questions that Lowe took Wigan up to a new level. Replacing successful coaches isn't always as daft as it may seem if you think you have found someone even better.