Basically what I was thinking. I was just WAY too lazy to type it out

Interesting comments re: Jack Hughes. One suggested a "daft option" who "doesn't have the skills to make it at centre". To be honest Darrell Goulding was probably "a daft option" for squad number 3 in 2008 and 2009 - especially given he was relegated to number 24 in 2010 - but he has now made that shirt his own for me. In fact in 2009 Goulding was squad number 3 but only started three games, so perhaps it means little that Hughes has Number 4. Perhaps Wane's done that to give the lad a gee up?

Whilst I agree the squad looks very thin on paper, players need opportunities and we really need to take a longer term view on such options. In this modern game of salary capping you cannot have the mentality of "we'll win it next year". Maurice tried and tried doing that and it failed miserably. The buy a big name way of doing things failed also under Maurice. I mean even Steve Renouf (one of the great centres in the games history) won bugger all here!

Yeah we could have re-signed Carmont and Finch and they would have been better options, but we'd still have been in the same boat at the end of next year....so what would have been the point? We need to take a short term hit for longer term gain.

For me our chances next year lay solely on the half backs and whether than can produce a kicking game. Leeds and Warrington made both finals last year, just ahead of Wigan in both regards, and it was the last tackle option that was the difference. Very small margin that cost us. If we can create some pressure on last tackles then everything else will click into place for me.

The kicking game is an important area where we actually look to be stronger in this coming season. For all of their strengths (and we all know they had many) as halfbacks Finch and Leuluai's kicking games were both pretty shocking. Leuluai's did improve this year but he never really had the range to kick well from distance. As for Finch's kicking, the last game against Leeds summed it up; he's pretty clueless when it comes to tactical kicking and it probably cost us the game.

From what I've seen Smith and Green should be a big step up, so at least there should be some improvement in that department.

Squad numbers mean nothing.

I'm pleased. I'm confident Jack will making an excellent centre. Given time I'm sure he'll prove all his doubters wrong.
He's big, strong and deceptively quick, I'm sure he'll develop his game as a centre offering great attack and defence on his side.

If the forwards make room for Matty Smith he'll certainly be an improvement on Finch or Leuluai in the kicking department. In games they don't though he may struggle ala Wire away last year. He looks a cracking player when he's got time but does seem somebody you can get at and knock off his game.

Him and Green will decide our fate this year. There's talk of us needing a centre or an experienced prop and maybe we do but I think there's enough quality to challenge if these 2 fire and get Tomkins and Hock stay fit all year.

Saints have revealed their squad today, less depth than we have IMO.

I couldn't agree more, the half-backs will be the key for use next season. The forwards are ok, pretty much the same as last year - hopefully Prescott will play more games and make up for the loss of Lima, the backs are mostly the same. Green for me could be the difference - he could offer something a little different than Finch who at times was a bit one dimensional, and he is supposed to be quick - so having someone able to take the line on more could be a significant advantage.I just hope that some of the fans given the half-backs a chance - it will take a few games for them to find their feet, patience will be needed. Also as options/cover we have Powell and Tomkins can also slot into the halves so we are probably as well off as most teams.

not sure if its the way the wind is blowing but lots of people on here now getting at finch - easy target i understand having left but for the first 2/3 of last season he was the stand out player for us who were the stand out team in the league.

I don't think people are disputing his quality. They are just raising the issue that the Leeds loss wasn't just down to Murphy dropping a bomb and probably had as much to do with a few poor kick options by Finch.

The kicking is one thing but the amount of stray passes he threw in big games (usually on our left flank) was beyond a joke.

More than a couple of these resulted in intercepts and a full length try.

Big, big fan of Finch from day 1, but he really let us down at the back end of this year.

I'm not a Wigan fan, but you have been easily the best team through the year in the last 3 years. But looking at the squad where has the cap space gone? Off the top of my head you've lost Lima, Fielden, Carmont, Leuluia (sp) & Finch. That has to be around 500K? Where has that money gone

IN Smith, Green, Thornley

Plus major upgrades for a lot of the younger players - long term contracts and pay increases.

I suspect there is still some room left on the SC as well.

On Wigan Tv Shaun Wane spoke of Taylor and Green as new signings to replace the lads that have left and said "we've got Green and Taylor as well as anybody else that may come in before the end of the year".

Words to that effect anyway so he didn't sound like a bloke that had given up on the idea of new players coming in.

No doubting Finch's quality, but as people have said, in the semi's last year he bottled it big time. Poor kicking, stray passes & the ones that found there mark were generally flat passes to Hock into a wall of defenders. He was a great player for most of his time here no doubt and leaves us with some great memories, but I think Tommy's time out injured showed us who was really making the team tick.

A few of us have been asking that very same question. £500k out of £1.7m is a hell of a big number to lose.

It happens all the time and I have mentioned it before. Player leaves and so he was rubbish. Look at some of the posts about Hock. When it looked like he was off the criticism mounted about his wayward off-loading and discipline that if you mentioned it when he was a nailed on Wigan player these things were minor blemishes on a great players game.

I am not suggesting everyone is as fickle as this but there are certainly some who will slag off players to justify the clubs current signings because as we know, the club can do no wrong.

Bottom line is no matter how good or bad Finch and Tommy where what counts now is how good Green and Smith are. Slagging off former players who clearly were class won't change that.

I don't see the similarity. Goulding was a victim of Noble's pick his favourites in any position selection policy and fell out of favour after a poor game v Leeds (when all the team were poor but he is the one who lost his place) virtually never to be seen again. He was also injured for most of one of those seasons wasn't he? He is also a natural centre. With Hughes it is simply just the same kind of compromise the team was forced into when Gleeson left and we had Joel in the centres. Yes it works most of the time but sometimes it doesn't and that us usually when up against a proper centre in the games that count.



But we won a cup and a grand final in no small measure due to having some big names in the side such as Hoffman, Lima and Finch. Success in 2010 and 2011 didn't come on the back of a side like we are about to put out in 2013. I I also reckon despite the league win a big reason we didn't win either of those trophies again in 2012 was down to poor coaching by Wane and I think people are ignoring the difference in coach as well as the squad. I have been far from convinced by Wane this season and he has as much to prove as any of the new signings such as Green IMO.

You also don't think this team restructuring is part of a master plan do you? IL promised year on year improvement and I for one was looking for the squad to evolve based on this not get dismantled. We have been just as unstable in terms of a settled team under IL as any previous seasons and next year shows we are at it again so I think any comparisons with the Maurice era are actually little different.



For me its the pack and the coach that will determine how we go. The pack looks much poorer. Wane has to be a lot cleverer in his selections and not believe his own propaganda by which I mean doing things convincing himself a player with one SL game under his belt is the right choice for a semi-final at full back. Sometimes the more conventional approach is the right one. I also think if he continues with the full contact training we will fade away by the end of the season once again and that would happen even if we had retained the players who have left.

For most of the season Wane exceeded my expectations, by the end he had just about lived up to them.

To be fair though I've seen players who are considered natural centres who have looking unconvincing against 'proper centres' in games that count. In fact young centres generally have lots of flaws in their game so why would Hughes be any exception? Stefan Marsh was considered an out and out centre but he looked less convincing than Hughes but I'd hazard a guess that if Marsh was still at the club you'd be all for his selection at centre, regardless of whether he's the best option purely because you want someone you consider 'a centre' at centre.

Tomkins wasn't a natural fullback, he had flaws in his game and still does but he's adapted to the role over time. The only way we really got to see how effective Tomkins was at fullback was by giving him a chance and he proved himself to be the best available option.

Versatility isn't a bad thing. It's not like Hughes is going to become a terrible player if he's played at centre. If he plays there and is absolutely awful he'll be dropped and Thornley will play instead. In fact it's not even guaranteed that Hughes will be first choice centre as both he and Thornley will get an opportunity in pre-season.

There's nothing wrong with finding out about a players versatility and in young players it can often be beneficial to give them chances in different positions. Playing on the wing certainly seems to have helped Goulding.

Hughes has only started 6 games at centre for the first team. In Goulding's first 6 starts at Wigan he was far from convincing! (Admittedly the team was garbage). In many games later than that he looked unconvincing.

From what I've seen of Hughes at centre he's had a couple of disappointing games, a couple of very good games and four games where he looked like a decent stand in. I think it's worth giving him a few more opportunities at centre to see whether he's the best option.

Sorry but am I the only one that expected no silveware at all last season? Given the losses of quality, experienced players like Deacon, Coley, Hoffman & Joel I definitely didn't! I thought we'd have finished 3rd at best. Wane exceeded my expectations and I think the attack for most of the season was better than we'd seen under Maguire. It was the crunch clashes where I thought some of our experienced "big name" players didn't perform as expected & really stifled our attack by being too predictable. Hence me not being too bothered about our lack of "big" signings. We've signed lads that have a lot to prove & I think they'll deliver

It's a natural progression for some great players from wing, to centre, to stand off, to loose forward.

I thought you only had Hoffman, Lima and Finch in 2011 (and 2012 for the last two), not 2010. If anything the 2010 side was less special on paper.

Correct. The 2010 GF winning side was as follows -

S Tomkins; Goulding, Gleeson, Carmont, Richards; Deacon, Leuluai; Fielden, McIlorum, Coley; J Tomkins, Hansen, O'Loughlin -- Prescott, Riddell, Feka, Farrell

Compared to this years likely team -

Tomkins (Better than he was 2 years ago)
Charnley (Better winger than Goulding)
Goulding (Actually had a better season than Gleeson ever had at Wigan)
[iHughes[/i (Not as good as Carmont)
[iRichards[/i (Not as good as he used to be - still a decent player)
Green (We won't know until he plays, but Deacon was past his best in 2010)
[iSmith[/i (Can't see him being better than Leuluai but stronger kicking game)
Mossop (Has every chance of being better than Fielden was in 2010)
McIlorum (Much better than he was in 2010)
[iLauaki[/i (We'll gloss over this one)
Hansen (Better than he was in 2010)
Hock (Better than Joel Tomkins)
O'Loughlin (Just as good as ever if not better)

Prescott (Should be better than he was in 2010)
Taylor (Should offer a more balanced game than Feka)
Farrell (Better than he was in 2010)
[iTuson[/i (Someone will have to explain the point of his 15 minute spells because I can't understand it)

Bold is where we're stronger - plain text is where it's uncertain and italic is where we're weaker.

On the £500k and where has it gone. One name missing was Roberts who was rumoured to be on a tidy wedge.
We have Green, Taylor, Smith and Thornley coming in and I don't think the first three would have been cheap or in the bargain style of signing. Thornley will probably be on a decent wage too.
Any surplus money will have gone on incremental increases to players already under contract. Can't imagine there being too much spare cash available after those have been taken into account.