You are missing the point. Your argument was we still won games without HH so he wasn't missed. We still won games without Pat so by the same logic he wasn't missed either. We still wanted him back in the side because with him in it we are a better side, as we are when Hansen plays. It's as simple as that and is not a direct comparison between players and was just showing up your logic that because "we won when he was out so he wasn't missed" to be flawed.

He wasn't lambasted for having an opinion, just a daft one the majority disagree with. There is a difference. I ought to know as I am never afraid to always go with the pack.

As to Farrell he can't make the 17 at the moment and is IMO experiencing a bit of the 2nd season syndrome. I think he will be our 13 when Lockers retires but I don't think he was a ready made replacement anyway because his defence has never been as good as HH's. Attack-wise I think Farrell is excellent but I think its his defence that is keeping out of contention at the moment.



At the time he was not available and I reckon Hock will end up as a prop anyway. It's early days yet and he is clearly not match fit but even if he returns to 2nd row and becomes the best 2nd row at the club HH will take a bench spot before anyone else (assuming Hoffman is the other starting 2nd row).

Wouldnt swap Hansen for Westwood, absoulutely no chance.

Regardless of opposition fans opinion of him, I think every team needs players like HH. Not a superstar, always overlooked for MOM awards because he's not flash, and does the donkey work every week so the flair players can do their thing. HH is one of the best players in our team, wouldn't swap him for any other second row in the league.

In all seriousness I fully understand peoples opinions/the point and fundamentally agree with it. Yes arguably we are a better 17 with Hansen in it. But I never questioned that, I questioned would said player be missed? And I claimed no. People in here then looked at it at a probability level and claimed it was an impossible comment when in reality the only one true indication of was he missed is the final scoreline, which all it all featured a win in every game.

People in here actually accused me of disliking Hansen, which is complete rubbish, my point was dictated to due to by myself after I was hammered initially.

And I would apply the same knowledge to many of the players who we have successfully replaced and not missed. Would we be stronger with them in the team? Perhaps yes, but were they missed? In all honesty no. Credit to the depth we now have at Wigan.

Unique players are missed, why? by nature they offer something others don't. I.e Sam, Pat, etc.

For what it's worth I think HH has improved, two strong games against both Saints and Hudds. Off the back of such performances I would have him in the team.

And yes it was all my opinion. Calling it 'daft' or otherwise is yours, and on occasion my opinion doesn't warrant 11 pages of verbal abuse which is what occurred.

To avoid future wide up merchants (I'm not saying you are) I will not discuss such a topic any longer as people have clearly used it to had a dig at my opinion, I was drawn into it and regret some of my comments which were said in anger, for that I apologise.

However I refuse to apoligise for having an opinion, no matter how disliked it is.

In todays game the 'donkey work' alone isn;t good enough. Potter for example wouldn't get into most SL teams as we need more from our players the game has moved on.
Westwood does the donkey work as well as the big hit and line breaks which are more eye catching. He has developed into an excellent player for Wire and England.

I wasn't comparing HH to Westwood, but i agree that Westwood has developed into a very good player for Wire and England. Regarding the donkey work remark, I was just referring to the 30 odd tackles a game HH makes and the countless dummy runs he does to open space for others, stuff that i would guess a large chunk of our supporters don't see. As well as all that, i think he does do the big hits and line breaks.

I never claimed he didn't. I think he does have a strong work rate. I simply said donkey work along isn't enough thesedays. I made no reference to HH.

No direct reference, but the donkey work remark you made was aimed at him. Anyway, it's seems well known you're not his biggest fan so i'm not gonna try and flog a dead horse.

No it wasn't aimed at him in the slightest.

I'm a huge fan of Hansen as I've pointed out in the past and he's on top form but he's not as good as Westwood and I don't think we should let our love of all things Wigan cloud that judgement.

Guys like Hoffman, Joel and in the long term Hock are equals to Westwood in the second row but Hansen is just a touch below that class.

That's not to say he's not a cracking player though as he is

Of course he isn't as good as those players you mentioned, all except Hock who has to prove himself to everyone all over again IMO. I just think teams need players like HH to compliment the flashy ones.

Correct.

Hansen allows others to stand out and take some glory because he gets through alot of the tough work and helps make space for others.

He can become just as good as westwood..who i never rated up to 2 seasons ago.

nobody will convince me westwood was anywhere near the player he his now at H's age

Quote ="NickyKiss" Guys like Hoffman, Joel and in the long term Hock are equals to Westwood in the second row but Hansen is just a touch below that class. '" Pre ban Hock was superior to Westwood. Just look at the stats. Westwoods best ever year form wise last year in comparison to the year Gareth was banned. www.superleague.co.uk/statistics ... eason=2011

Quote ="NickyKiss" Guys like Hoffman, Joel and in the long term Hock are equals to Westwood in the second row but Hansen is just a touch below that class. '" Pre ban Hock was superior to Westwood. Just look at the stats. Westwoods best ever year form wise last year in comparison to the year Gareth was banned. www.superleague.co.uk/statistics ... eason=2011

Both Westwood and Hock are two strong English SR forwards, it seems like its an area which we are strong in.
I wonder if the English first choice SR is still Ellis and Burgess?

I always rated Hock higher than Ellis before his ban. Hopefully he can hit top form and he should be in the squad for the 4N. 4 second rowers of Hock, Ellis, Burgess and Westwood would have been immense but it looks like Burgess will miss out.

i'd have Ellis/Westwood as the two starting 11/12 for England. No way you can justify playing Burgess ahead of those two based on this season