I will give everyone a fair crack of the whip but watching Sat game again. What was Amos doing out there wants his backside kicking for Saints 1st (although that whole right hand side didn't help)& 3rd tries. That is what he does need to improve his concentration.

Agree with you on that, he does get caught out at times in the defensive line and comes out to quickly when as a winger your always told stick with your opposite man. I think Amos will have a good year next year, he's very quick on his feet and has a superb step. He needs to do it on a consistent basis but I don't think he's been anywhere near as bad as what some people are saying, same goes for Piggy. Shown glimpses but need to do it on a regular basis. No need to be getting rid of them though after just 1 year.

Actually the missed tackles for Saint's first came from Sam and Joel, Gleeson was AWOL on that side for that play, leaving Amos with the choice of Going for Eastmond or Meli but not both. He stuck with Meli initially, then went for Eastmond when Eastmond had broken through. It was too late and the try was always going to be in the bag by the point, when Eastmond passed to Meli, he's a big strong guy and wasn't going to be stopped.

The big issue again with that play was Gleeson was totally out of position, Sam went for a diving tackle rather than marking Eastmond, Joel got made to look a bit silly, and Roberts was left holding the baby against 2 and flapped like a lot of wingers would.

It was a team organisation failing for that try, not the main fault of Amos Roberts - yes he was culpable, but in my personal opinion (and of course it's only an opinion) less than Joel, about the same as Sam, and certainly all of them less than Gleeson for not being anywhere near the defensive line.

Hopefully that's something that SW and MMag can work on, Leeds and Saints have been so good because their line speed is a class above.

Of Ainscough and Roberts the player who broke the most tackles on average was Ainscough. On average about 3.5 per game compared to just less than 2 per game for Roberts. Check the Engage SL sites stats.

So given the facts, I take it you agree Ainscough does more work than Roberts and not only did he outscore him on average per game but by your own measure of hard work, he worked harder?

I think what people noticed about Ainscough wasn't just his try scoring record but the fact he was able to create something for himself. Roberts has not shown this at all IMO.

That said we have a new coaching set up and the head coach is someone who values getting the players into tip top condition so lets see what he can do with Roberts because despite some good performances he has had too many bad ones for a player of his reputation in the NRL and if anyone thinks otherwise then IMO they are deluding themselves. Although not as liable to be in for extra training as are Feka and Riddell he is certainly one who must do better

Dave

Ainscough - 7.8m per carry
Roberts - 8.4m per carry

Check the Engage SL sites stats.

You make some fair points Dave, though it will always be impossible to do a like for like comparison for two players who played a different number of matches, on different wings, against different opposition.

I think you're right that Amos needs to put in consistently better performances next year considering his reputation, experience, seniority and expected salary - and you know, i would not be in the least bit surprised if he did same with Riddell.

The only thing i ever have an issue with are the small minority of people who say Roberts is rubbish. He's clearly not rubbish, maybe not performing to what he's capable of or what maybe expected - but that doesn't make him bad, just underperforming (exactly the same with Riddell).

Lets see what the new regime can get out of the current squad, and let them decide how to progress and bring on our reserve/academy lads.

I really hope that Shaun never falls for the messiah like qualities that a small minority of people credit him with, but I really don't think he's that sort of lad. I just don't want to see trouble brewed between Shaun and the club where no trouble does or should exist.

I also don't want to see another Chris Ashton situation

Meters per game Roberts 84, Ainscough 102. We could go on all night but the post I made was in reply to one that said Roberts made the most tackle breaks and on average Ainscough made more per game. Selectively picking a different stat were Roberts was better doesn't alter that.

Dave

WTF is meters per game?



Straw clutchingirific.

Well that is where ones perception comes in and mine is that Ainscough looks to have something about him Roberts doesn't which given their different experience levels is.



I don't think he is a bad player either because every now and again he has had a really good game but he has had too many poor games this season.



I don't think there is much danger of that but getting back to Roberts he is one of the players who perhaps people are overlooking that the new coaches need to get more out of. Everyone is assuming Feka and Riddell will be the targets but if only two players were the problem we'd be much better than we have been.

Dave

Did Amos Roberts sleep with your wife Dave?

I think he slept with dave instead but just hadn't called since.

Ever heard of awards for the top meter maker? Obviously not!

The award goes to the player who made the most meters in a season. This year it was James Graham with 4713 but when you have two players who played a different number of games you do as you did and average out the stats per game. Obviously.

In that regard Ainscough made more meters per game than Roberts.

In the same way he made more tackle busts on average than Roberts, scored more tries per game than Roberts and made more clean breaks than average than Roberts.

All these stats are the Opta stats collected for every player throughout the season.

And guess what? In some stats Roberts is better than Ainscough. Just.

Now given one is a senior pro and the other a player in a debut season perhaps that might help you interpret the stats a bit better.

You can also dismiss a particular stat if you like but if you are going to quote stats in the first place that is what is "Straw clutchingirific."

Dave

To be honest you're right, there's room for improvement across the board in terms of delivering to potential, cutting out errors and giving 100% all the time of every match.

I honestly don't think we have any 'crap' players. We may have some underperforming ones, we may have ones who are not the best in SL at their given position. But I honestly don't think any of them are crap (and I know you don't either, just a tiny number who do).

If we can get every player on the team to give their all and buy in to the philosophy of continuous development and improvement we'll go a long way, and it will be like having some new signings.

Nobody ever says meters per game. Meters per carry is more telling.

And can you sort out your paragraphs. So painful to read your posts when they're split up into about 15 paragraphs.

I don't agree that it was clutching at straws, but obviously you can only try and make metres when you get given a carry, and in that respect metres per carry is a better indication of go forward than metres per game.

It's all moot though now, and you're right Shaun is a young player in his first season with a great future ahead of him. Amos can deliver more than he has, and i'm sure if you talked to the guy he'd feel the same.

Lets see what next season manages to bring.

Boring!

Sorry to post this
I read these forums more than i post, but is their some sort of agenda at the moment that wigan fans pick on wigan fans.
i.e. every post seems to turn into Dave O against everybody else or have i missed something , its started to wear a bit thin with me,and hands up who thinks giving a four year deal to Amos Roberts was a good idea .

I'm sorry but I dont think I have ever heard a positive word about Wigan come from DaveO. He is constantly trying to put a downer on all things about this great club and TBH it is starting to 'wear a bit thin with me'. Fair enough Roberts hasn't played to his best ability this season, but he has signed a four year deal and he is here to stay. The best thing for Roberts could be a change of coach. A coach who at Melbourne was a coach for the backs and worked with the likes of Inglis and Slater. Whats the point in slating Roberts now? The season is over. If he carries on underperforming 2 months into the season, with a new coach, then fair enough.

How about getting behind the lad and supporting him? Isn't that what supporters do?

Nail. Head.

My only agenda is to support the club - that includes the chairman, the players, and our coaching team.

I'm not even picking on or even arguing with Dave, you'll notice i agree with some of the things he says.

I just really really want our fans to put any squables, arguements, rivalries, dislikes for certain players etc aside. Lets have a clean slate for next season with our new coaching team, and give our club all the support we can.

I'm seeing people optimistic all over the town, there's more people talking about the club than ever before - i'm even seeing people who stopped following Wigan closely after we left Central Park taking a keen interest again - I haven't seen this sort of buzz around since Graham Lowe took over and it's a good feeling, and i'd like to enjoy it over the off season.

I also seem to be developing Dave's paragraph structure.

too much beer

Steve Ella's Beard.

How about getting behind the lad and supporting him? Isn't that what supporters do?'"

I wasn't having a go at you. I was having a go at the fact that DaveO seems to have an obsession with picking the bones out of every post a fellow Wigan fan makes about something that he disgrees with. Ainscough has the fans full support, he has had a outstanding first season and he can only get better.

Shaun's a great young player who's got a great future ahead of him at the club - but he's not currently the messiah of wing play that a [itiny[/i few would have us accept.

Amos is a good player who's yet to fulfill what he's capable of delivering in a Wigan shirt - but isn't the piece of trash that a [itiny[/i few would have us accept.

I support both the guys, after all they're [iour[/i players.

Thanks for that reply i would like to argue butt i agree with the sentiment of your post .
It just seems some people seem to be targeted whenever or whatever they post . After all we are on the same side .