But absolutely wasted on here.

I used to have a lot of time for Wigan fans but they seem incapable now of giving credit to anyone else or being objective .

the point made about slowing the PTB down is true we do do that but Saints and Leeds have done it for years and all teams are doing it now and the RFL are letting it happen..

Ctriticising the ref is one thing but thinking your team are guiltless of everything and it is only the other team who commit offences is laughable.

I do think you were hart done by re the disallowed try but that was the in goal TJ.

Wigan as a club and Wigan fans need to adapt to the changes that are going on . the only three good overseas players you have are Leulelai , Richards and Carmont. the rest are a waste of money. You could have had Wild and Crabtree for the money you are wasting and being a better team.

Not sure what you mean with the bold comment?
Do you not think there would be more passion and commitment to the shirt if you had more local players instead of playing 8/9 overseas players every week. The worrying thing about last night is that Tompkins and Ainscough didn't have their best games and Noble could drop them next time to make way for another 2 overseas players, hope he doesn't but you never know with him. Solve the problem of nobles obsession with overseas players and in my opinion you'll start playing with more passion.

Brilliant

Interesting but pointless moan of a topic.

It's quite clear that once again people are posting their comments after seeing another lack-luster performance by our average team. And as hardworking paying fan we at least want to see effort drive and a will to actually want to win.

But is it Noble's fault? IMO- No. We are doing very basic things wrong, thats not his fault, a great coach wouldn't get half of these playing well, we've just got a team of average players with one or two good players. A while back I started a thread called OVERRATED, and got facts pushed at me, facts highlighting a players positives ignoring their weaknesses.
Each week he's moving players around for maximum effect, he is showing how he is trying and get the best possible line up from our average squad.

Noble has shown a willingness to play younger stars and drop aussie names, he's practically done all we ask.

IL is trying, ironing out problems and issues/ Salary cap and he's doing it. It's not easy with players already contracted to big contracts. The backroom staff has been developed and is moving on. He is trying to be smart with cap issues bringing in players on lower deals.

Look at what they've tried to do with signing-

Stu Fielden- At the time was the perfect signing, UK best prop going, good age the lot.
IL and BN weren't to know he'd suddenly become donk.

Phelps-can't be on a wage. Good age, utility player. At time had potential.

Carmont-Boy done good.

Coley-Good age, SL experience, can't be on much. Gotten worst, been a let down.

This goes on.

This is why for me we need to focus on UK Wigan talent. Change the mentality and structure back to winning ways.
A bonus system would also been good, get paid more for winning and less for losing, make them play for their cash.

This is what I would like to see in the future

1 NEW UK FB
2 Richards
3 NEW CENTRE
4 Carmont- If still able to play (getting on)
5 Ainscough
6 Tomkins
7 NEW 7
8 ENFORCER PROP/INTIMIDATOR PROP
9 Tommy
10 IMPACT PROP rotate with another impact FEKA hitting the line hard for 20mins spells each
11 Farrell (Looks outstanding from what I've seem. maybe tempted to play him at 13)
12 Lockers
13 Tomkins
---------------
Feka Prescott Hock Riddell

TO GO
---------
Hansen, Coley, Fielden, O Carroll Roberts Smith Phelps Mathers Bailey

It's the attitude that worries me with the players. And i have to say it's mainly the aussies.

Disagree about letting Hansen and O'Carroll go

TBH im not so much lethargic about is as I am depressed. Im as fed up now as I was when we were bottom of SL, though then the "great escape" began and it was exciting.

Currently, we are seeing a helluva lot of players who have potential to be great being average and not caring.

Noble, is a proven world class coach, but he isnt delivering either.

Why is all this going on. What did IL actually achieve at Quins? Why does everything give the impression our club is being run "on the cheap".

And many would disagree with letting Hansen and O Carroll go and they have fair points but I see it this way.

We need world class or excellent players in our 17.

O Carroll will never be up there with the top props. He's got height issues and doesn't cause enough impact when hitting the line. I feel bad for saying it, but he's just not good enough, played quite a lot of games and only looks better cos of how bad Fielden and Coley are, thats the main reason.

Hansen, he's a SR forward. We have lots of players who can play in that position, Farrell Mossop Flanny Tomkins Lockers Hock.

Despite being a good tackler, he offers little in attack, we need someone who can tackle up and attack. Lockers in the SR would be ideal with Joel at 13. Joel's a far better 13.

Hansen's place is at the cost of some other players, Farrell in particular looks very good.

It's a hard call on these two, but I want an outstanding excellent team, I wanna raise the bar at Wigan.

I dissagree, Hansen was the leagues top tackler last year and puts 100% in every game, I cant remember a game where he played crap. He has come through our academy and has passion for the shirt, to get rid of Hansen would be really silly.

we really need something to kick start our season!

dont know what, dont know how but the atmosphere yesterday was dire and the attendance was nothing more than shocking!

where has the wigan spirit gone at home?

Just like our team it has been battered into submission, 2 years of on off performances, false dawns and general average to poor dull rugby and it is to be expected sadly.

In part its down to the fans. When we win we are going to win the GF and when we lose its the worst in 40 years. Expectation is so out of sync at our club its no wonder everyone is lost.

In all the years Ive watched Wigan all through the glory years to now I have never been so disheartened, the last time I felt like this was walking from Knowsley Road after the 75 - 0 game and there was a gravestone and some smart alec saints fan shouted ' Look at that gravestone, Rest In Piece Wigan Rugby League'.

I dont look forward to the games as much anymore because of the borefest on show.

Also it gets right on my nerves when we say how bad things are and you get some retard fan from a dog turd club saying 'You dont have the divine right blah blah blah BS!!!!! We do have the divine right, we are Wigan Rugby League! We are the Man Utd/Liverpool of rugby league, we arent Wakefield, Huddersfield, Salford who are crap clubs and get 20 fans a game and so on, we are the greatest club in rugby league, its about time the players started showing it instead of pinching a living ala Roberts, Smith, Coley, Fielden, Riddell, Phelps, Mathers.

I like O'Loughlin but he isnt a captain, no chance, on the field he is like a sulky teenager.

I would make Hock captain and loose forward regardless of the brain farts.

Drop Riddell to reserves and play McIllorum and Tommy at 9.

Drop Roberts, he looks 'not bothered' in every game.

Some very interesting thoughts on this thread. Having grown up myself on watching Wigan clean up in the 80's & 90's whilst shaking with exitement at the thought of Saints even getting to a cup final, and then watching us lose countless, The current situation still feels a little bizarre. Yes, of couse the likes of the 75-0 made up for some previous drubbings, but if RL is to prosper then you need a good Wigan side and at the moment from 1-17, You just don't cut the mustard.

I'm genuinely not having a go when I say I would honestly not want Saints paying out for one Wigan player in the starting 13 at the mo, with the possible exception of Hock - and having watched on enviously for years previously at the superstars in the cherry and White - I have to question the players brought into the club against the impact the likes of Lyon, Gidley, Webb etc have had on Super league in recent years. I understand the lack of confidence in Noble and certainly its justified, but when I look at the team he's putting out on the paddock I don't think its strikes fear into any team in Super League and that's a problem that's built up over many an off season.

Having bled so many youngsters and local lads in your side, I'm surprised that the effort in wearing the shirt appears to be lacking, which again suggests that when push comes to shove they just aren't quite good enough.

Rugby League needs a good Wigan side, a strong Bradford outfit, Wire attempting to challenge, Hull continuing to track the top two.

In a couple of weeks time you may well prove me wrong and, like a few seasons back, beat Saints all ends up with an underacheiving side. But if Saints win by 50, yes I'll bask in the glory for a minute or two but then think - what was the point of that game? It should be the biggest, greatest, hardest fought match in sport for goodness sake.

It may sound daft from a Saints speccy but I honestly hope Nobby gets shut of the underachievers (that are clearly picking up enough wedge to push the salary cap) and replaces them with shrewd buys that will bring you back to being a top four side. I want Saints to win all, of course, but there was nothing like the pre-match tension of a trip to Central Park/early JJB match and I'd like a little bit of that back please!

Tbh it will take more than an inspired peformance against St Helens to prove you wrong.

Tell me about it, I used to look for the Wigan V Saints derby when the fixtures came out and really look forward to the game having the banter with all my Saints supporting mates, now I just aint bothered and neither are my mates, just another game.

Did you not go last night then when McIllorum came of the Huddersfield defense was on him before he had made is mind up where to pass the call.
He needs to speed up his thinking Riddell was much better when he was on the field we need a new SH and Tommy to go as interchange Hooker.

same here completely browned off with this team, the coach and the management.
i would love to know what the preparation is prior to kick off, because they seem to start the same way every week 4 or five drives a kick a knock on a penalty.
noble thinks the game starts after 60 mins.
if i hadn't of got a season ticket i would be picking my games.
mr lenagan it is time to take charge and do what most fans want.

This point is usually where the "game plan" goes out of the window and the players have to play off the cuff which is from a coaches point of view worryingly more successful than his "gameplan" 99% of the time.

The one thing that would re-ignite the passion in the whole club is the return of a Wigan legend...

But that's not going to happen for years

Excellent post mate.

Quality Post. A true RL fan.

Watching wigan in the biggest derby in SL is priceless

no offence but with words like these the club are better off without "fans" like these

You can see in front of you on a week by week basis that basic elements of our play are not improving, the same people making the same errors / giving penalties when the slightest bit of pressure is applied.

The lethargy comes from the fact that it appears that the coaching staff can do nothing to resolve it - it doesn't matter who they drop, who they start with or which side they are up against the fundamentals fall apart more often than not.

The lethargy for me is that the whole sport (inc. fans) not only the club and the players have the excuse that they can lose in March because the season only comes alive in Sept - oh for the days when you had to play for a win every week to make you champions.

We have gone from a club who reached several grand finals with ease in the early part of the decade to one who is grateful that the playoffs format has been changed because it gives the not so good sides a great chance to get to Old Trafford.

I disagree

Saints and Leeds are not suffering from lethargy. Or Wakey, Cas, Hull FC, KR, even Celtic! Our team look like they can't be ar5ed and that is down to motivation, which is part of coaching. For me that is our number one problem. Noble is offering new in how he coaches and it is beyond boring.

Last night, I was utterly bored. And I have been watching Wigan for 20 years. For me Noble needs to leave, and a fresh face with different tactics, techniques, motivation skills etc needs to come in. It will be the same week in week out until that happens.