Ideally I'd like him to be explosive in attack and a workaholic in defence - unfortunately there aren't many 2nd rows like that.

He makes us alot harder to beat when he's in the team. Not just the tackling he does but his technique in allowing the defence to get set is far better than most at wigan. There is room for both Hansen and Bailey.

The main point though, is that replacing Bailey with Hansen say WILL NOT improve our team and results. There are far more important issues to resolve at Wigan than criticising Bailey for his lack of attack. IMO it makes us look stupid when we slag off players just because they are aussies or are easy targets, rather than looking at their actual contribution to the team and where the fundamental problems lie.

For example - we would be a much improved team;

If we were to have more runners at the ptb for a start, making it harder for the defence to pick the runner - we make more ground and we get a quicker ptb.
If we were to give our ball carriers more options - we put doubt in the defence.
If we were to cut out the number of errors we make - we play in a better field position.
If our players were the fittest in the league.
If we used the bench properly - with impact players on it and a proper plan for rotating the hooker.

These are fundamental things that will improve wigan as a team. Swapping Bailey out of the team will probably make us easier to beat.

I prepare to get shot down, but we have one in Sean O'Loughlin.

Having Bailey out on pitch for the majority of the game stunts our attacking power. What's the point in replacing him with another defensive player in Harrison Hansen who IMO is a better player? If we drop Bailey and start Hansen it gives us another attacking option off the bench, something that we're missing at the moment.

I would have Hansen on the pitch before Bailey anytime at the moment. For me Bailey is not the player we thought we were getting when we signed him.

Hansen
O'Loughlin
Joel

S - Hock

with 2 props and a back.

Bingo.

Hansen - Defence
O'Loughlin - Attack/Defence
Tomkins - Attack

Hock - Impact

Although he needs to improve generally, Andy Coley can switch between both positions and gives us versatility and options.

I assume of the Mecca type?

Good post!! This is what ive been saying and Baileys probably on more than Hansen and Tomkins wages put together! Is he that much better than them??? I think not!

Another problem i feel is the fact that Noble see's the loose-forward as being just another second rower, this was highlighted in the recent J.Tomkins interview on the website when he was asked which role he prefered playing, loose or second row and he said he didnt mind as their virtually the same.

Is this just a problem at Wigan and another reason to explain our lack of expansive rugby?? Or is this now the same at every club in the modern game??

But what does his salary have to do with anything?

I expect better from somebody using up such a chunk of the salary cap. Do you think he's worth over £100,000 a year??

That when his contribution can be covered by 2 players on less money than him (combined) his wages could be spent on a more useful player such as a true standoff or prop.....

It doesnt matter if he is worth it because thats what he is paid.

He wouldnt offer enough if he was paid 10k a year either compared to our other back rowers.

But he has a contract, so that is a pointless argument.

I suppose it just adds to the frustration, that this aussie journeyman is earning so much more than local lads who put in better performances.

And with any luck this will be the case next year.

What do people on here think about this?? What is the modern role of the loose forward?

our back row is simply levels behind a superleague winning team standard. Andy coley offers nothing to the team, and the word "nothing" is no over-exaggeration. He runs with no pace or intensity, forwards are designed to intimadate defences, andy coley just fails in that department.
Gareth Hock has potential to be a brilliant player, despite his poor showings recently i still believe he is a brilliant player, for me, he his such a better 2nd rower to have in ur pack than phil bailey. Bailey appeals to me as a player who has no obvious skill in any position, to slow to be a centre, to small and fragile to be a forward. I couldnt agree more than harrison hansen (our top tackler of last season) should start. Noble is a man for stats and he should be the first to start hansen.

Coley needs to improve more than generally - he needs to improve beyond all recognition!

I'm not convinced that having that backrow would have made a great deal of difference against Wakefield - or in the future if we play with the same attitude or skill level.

Tomkins and Hansen with O'Loughlin at loose. Hock on the bench and Bailey at home.

Would that be in the next seat to Flannery?

Okay, you want reasons to back up my opinion, well here we go.

1.) Carmont was not the league's best centre Gidley was far better, he made so many tries for Gardner it was unreal. Both Goulding and Carmont are not the strongest defensively and this has been commented to me by Wiganers in the past never mind any other fans. I would also say Goulding was behind Atkins at Wakefield and IMO Shenton at Cas has looked more promising.

I would say that Gleeson and King is a better Centre Pairing than Carmont and Goulding, although admittedly, King never hit anything Like top form last year, However both at top form are much better than Goulding.

Fielden is shot, that's been acknowledged by many Wigan fans once again. Last season for the majority an awful lot of Wigan fans were saying they should get rid, for you to say that he would get into most teams is mad.
I definitely wouldn't have him in our team infront of Cayless, Graham or Puletua or Leeds infront of Peacock and Lueluai, I'll give you Bailey as Ive never rated him. Warrington are also better off in that area with Morley and Carvell, and even Bradford could claim to compete with Lynch and Burgess!

Carmont was voted the best centre in the league last year hence his place in the dream team. I acknowledged in my last post Gidley is a better player but that doesn't mean Carmont isn't a good one either. My original post tho was all about how if you look through the Wigan team it's IMO a lot better than it's performing. Carmont is one of the best centres in the league but is the current coaching team making the most from his talents as say Saints are doing with Gidley? I don’t think they are……

Goulding is better than Atkins for me but it's all personal opinion at the end of day. He's defiantly better than the other centre's i mentioned and we could do far worse to partner Carmont. It’s not that bad of pairing really.



Again your right but how often do they hit form? One has a good game and then the other one has a good game rarely do they both perform consistently together. If Senior and Toopi/Albet(sp) can win the league then a pairing of Goulding and Carmont defiantly can. You can’t deny they if both were on the top of their game it would pose a threat to most teams.


Fielden isn't the same player he was i agree but are you telling me he's not good enough to be any teams 2nd, 3rd or 4th choice prop. No team in SL has four props in their squad that are all better than him. Some may have one or two as you mention but in modern day RL you need four props in your squad and Fielden would get in any team in SL on that basis. I’d rate him over Carvell, Lueluai, Puletua and maybe even Cayless. It’s far easier for those players to stand out with the calibre of players round them they have. Fielden has to do twice the amount of effort cause he’s carrying an weaker set of props. I’ll say it again a hard working prop like Guisset would transform our props and take a shed loads of work off Fielden.

As you say it's all about personal opinion, however I would say that Carvell is the more likely to make yards than fielden as is Kylie Leuluai, every time I have seen Lueluai play against us he has done some damage when he has come on, Fielden has never looked anything like. Cayless is fantastic for us, and we dont half miss him when he isnt playing, the difference in the side could be seen for all when he did play. Puletua, well the jury remains out yet, however I think Tony is in for a very big season, it's very rare someone will Captain an NRL side without being able to play a bit.

Way off the mark.

[urlhttp://www.superleague.co.uk/statistics_player.php?hs1=2008&hp1=1212&hs2=2008&hp2=29&stat=penalties&season=2008[/url

Fielden beats them both in all facets of the game.

Fieldens stats just for the 2nd half of last year would be very interesting and i'd think they'd compare well against most if not all props in superleague. He really did make massive strides to getting back to himself at the back end of last year and hopefully will take that into this season.

I thought he was pretty quiet against Wakey yet made 105m which is a good effort. If he played every game this year and made an average of 105m per game he'd end the season with close to 3000m which is very good and will easily top the metres made by Carvell and Leuluai i'd imagine.

Nice Try, But as usual you dont show the full picture.

Fielden averages a gain of 7.19 metres per drive.
Leuluai averages a gain of 7.64 metres per drive.
Carvell averages a gain of 8.77 Metres per drive.

Hence I suggest this would support my argument that they are both more likely to make more metres on a drive than Fielden.