That's why what they will be watching needs to be changed and be different than what it is now.

Now is a poor big fish in tank 1 going round in circles with hardly anything to feed on, occasionally biting it's own tail off or taking a nibble out of tank 2.

In tank 2 there is an even poorer little fish half dead floating on the top that's going nowhere.

When tank 2 finally dies off there will be even less to sustain fish 1.

Look what happened in finding Nemo, eventually he found his way home.


Much better than what happened in Jaws.

Bad teams are still bad, they will not be watched.

The old championship GF and NRC final often drew more than some SL games Suzy
The broadcasting of Championship RU also says different refn lower league rugby but you keep looking into your bubble love, I hope the whole package is far more exciting and easier to sell to broadcasters

The 2 biggest games of the year drew more viewers than what games exactly? London/Cas? Crusaders/Salford?

Nobody bothers to turn up to your games, never mind non-Leigh/Fax/whoever fans pay a subscription fee to watch the cream of the Championship take on the dross of SL1.

Leigh vs. Wakey, the mouth waters.

Where is this £19.5m coming from? The Sky money is £18m and I don't see any other source of revenue given there is no sponsor.

I think the comment was to do with the media through areas like TV and such as opposed to standing on the terraces.

In that sense how many games in SL are not only bad but outright dire and it seems like they last for 3 hours.
Shaun Mcrae and many other since first coined the phrase "knock on a thon" during an SL game some time back, it has since been applied to many games in SL so the same applies to them.

Many of the Championship matches have many saying what a great game of rugby that was and a credit to the game which considering how little support the teams have had is an achievement in itself.

As with anything if it doesn't work then try and fix before throwing the towel.

DaveO - you stated 1.3m times 15 that equals 19.5m, it is 18m I believe and that is 1.2m per share not the 1.3m you quoted

Come on SB lighten up.

Even if all the others are dross just having the top 4, 5, 6 play each other 4 or 5 times would soon have people bored of watching the same teams square off each week so untill they catch up someones got to make up the numbers, it's true though that even in SL the gap between top and bottom is significant in standard of play.

As an alternative could be a simple solution regarding people watching that may get some more interest in the whole of our game from broadcasters etc that would cost no more than is allready being payed out by sports channel subscribers.

You know what it is.

Turn the TV on!!!!

Or at least record the first showing of anything to do with Rugby League and the replays as well and if anybody doesn't want to watch them just press the delete button.

It will certainly get viewing figures up and that's what these guys are really interested in not what is being watched.

If they thought watching paint dry would snare a large audience it would be on prime time.
Crafty yes but could be an

Maurice. DaveO was only going on what had been stated by the RFL in the press as below but it mentions 12 SL clubs at £1.3m not 14 or 15.

These are the figures that were posted earlier by me straight from the RL press last week.
This weeks RL press has a question and answer with the RFL and on the cash distribution of central funding it has this to say on indicative or possible figures that have yet to be ratified.

Quote
"Question. How much central funding will each club get in Super League & the Championship.

The anticipated figures for Super League clubs would be £1.3 million from 2015.
Championship between 650k and 150k for 2015 depending on their league position in 2014.
Championship 1 clubs receive £75k.

Question. How does this compare to what teams in Super League and the Championship get in 2013.

Super League clubs receive a minimum of £1.130k in 2013 with Championship clubs receiving a minimum of 90k and Championship 1 clubs a minimum of £70.2"

End quote:

The Figures for SL are for 2015 when there will be 12 clubs x £1.3 million as compared to the £1.13 million for this year 2013, so there is a slight increase of 170k per SL club.

It didn't mention £18 million from SKY or how on the sliding scale mentioned from 2015 in the 650k to 150k bracket the finer details of how it will break down.

The way to improve SL is to get more money into the game. Promoting teams like Leigh and Halifax that have next to no fans is not the way to increase the quality of SL, merely to persuade their fans that they "have a chance to make it." When in fact, they don't have a chance and will never have a chance.

Whatever figure people are quoting unless RL get a significant improvement on the Sky TV deal and a decent headline sponsor the sport simply can't afford to expand.

I want to make it clear in an ideal world i am in favour of promotion and relegation i just don't think it is viable at this time.

P&R won't work unless the second tear is fully professional, that's how it was prior to licencing, one team came up, invariably signed most of the players from the team that was relegated and went back down again. From a player point of view if you played for a club threatened by relegation you didn't know whether your contract would be honoured as it was null and void if your club went down.

The only solution is simple to say but much more complicated to do. We MUST get more money into the sport. IMO the way forward is the international game. It's the internationals which draw the money into union We need a guaranteed regular international calender IMO a RU style 5 nations involving England, Wales, Scotland, Ireland and France. Yes initially England would walk it but over time it would become much more competitive, players who previously rejected Celtic nations as they only really play in the WC would choose them instead of England. On top of the 5 nations there would be a World cup every 4 years and a GB & Ireland tour every 4 years.

If SL were cut to 12 clubs the free weeks could then be used for internationals.

The aim then would be to raise the funds to sustain a full time championship, the players don't have to be paid 100k upwards just able to train and compete in a full time environment. Ideally the Championship would contain a French, Welsh, Scottish and Irish team. Once this was achieved then P&R could be reinstated. The next objective would then be to raise the funds for a 3rd full time league.

I would also scrap the salary cap completely and replace it with a requirement for all clubs to at minimum break even over a set period, say 3 years. If a club didn't do this then they would loose their place in whatever division they were in. I've no problem with a chairman funding clubs but it must be a gift NOT a loan. The more MK's we can attract to the game the better. If chairmen are willing to fund clubs why stop them. Their money from transfers will filter through the game.

I don't know what the motives behind IL and the other chairmen are, time will tell on that one but it certainly has got people talking.

I presume you mean more money into the "game" is more money into SL and I have said that is one of the things that needs to be decided, is "the game" just Super League now.

You might be right about it with the clubs such as Fax and Leigh as they are now it could well be too late the gap in standards is massive.
They used to have a lot of fans.

Even off season Halifax were regularly invited to tournaments.
I and many others personally went on many occasions to Cenral Park to the sevens tournament that was held there for example precisely because of how many they would bring.

It just so happened when they hit the bottom in SL and went down, which they desreved to, not long after the door was shut.

If you speak to any fans like I have who used to go to games home and away from Halifax and similar clubs and have since stopped one of the main reasons was they were in a cul de sac comp that they could not get out of, many existing and potential investers said the same and who created that situation, not them.

Halifax used to have a large following and the Town still has a thriving rugby league presence at amatuer level so out of all the clubs that could see a revival and increased crowd number Fax are one of them.
The potential is still there I know, I live here and here what people are saying.

If it is all in the past and as you say never to happen for anyone else then the SL will have your 3 or 4 teams winning everthing and below them you will have the dross as you called it.

Below that you will have what there is now, teams going nowhere with low crowds getting lower.

I can live with that but so will every other RL supporter because with that type of infrastructure the standard will struggle to go up anywhere.

On money, since Super leagues inception in 1996 every year they have had the vast bulk of the funding and all they have done with it is to produce at best half a dozen teams that can play a half decent game.
SL has failed to produce enough players to support a 14 team comp or even a 12 team comp and if the Championship clubs are cut off even more they won't be supplying many either.

On current funding Wigan must have had enough money to produce players like Sam and Josh etc, more money given just to these clubs will just mean that at Wigan for example Josh Charnley will be running down the same wing on the same field against the same opposition but he might have a lot more money in his pocket for doing it, how will that improve anything across the sport or even at Wigan.

Distribution of funds will give others the chance to produce there own tallent, spreading the funding is not my idea or me saying it, as stated before it the Watkins report Brian Barwick etc and I thought that on the decision thing "the game" included what was outside SL.

If they had said the game needs only Super League looking after I would have been as sick as a parrott but accepted what was left.

Maybe the greatest game is just the greatest mess.

The RFL have published their proposals here:

[urlhttp://www.therfl.co.uk/news/article/29087/rfl-policy-review-documentation[/url

I have not had time to read it all yet but I did read the analysis as to why they think licensing has failed.

The main reason is according to them some clubs performed worse financially under it that previously. Hello! Just because X happened it does not mean it was because of Y.

Suggesting what they do is the logic of a child.

The trouble is they then go on to use this "fact" to justify dropping licensing in favour of P&R.

They are actually using a Straw Man argument to decide the future of the game!

They are not fit to be running the game based on just reading that part of the document.

Salford, Hull, HKR, Hudds, Cas, Wakey and Widnes went up and didn't go straight back down. That honour belongs to Leigh when two went down to let in Cats, although we did make a profit in SL with 5k gates at a very dated stadium

The question is what do the bottom 4 or so do for SL, and the answer is no more than the top 3/4 in the championship could, yet we exclude those clubs and protect the incumbents.

If SL was on the verge of having 14 clubs with 10k gates making profits whilst having first class Academies I would be saying its up to those aspiring to get to that level, we don't and therein lies the conundrum

We have a franchise system that allows clubs to mismanage financially and operate out of poor stadia, yet maintain SL status to the detriment of clubs who have bit the bullet to invest or move, in Leighs case to greatly reduced income streams at a rented stadium.

The status quo is not an option and I await the proposals Ian will put forward after the WC

Wrong. We have a licensing system that the RFL failed to police or manage properly.

A licensing system or any other system including the one proposed does not guarantee clubs will be well run.

What a licensing system was supposed to do was replace the badly run cubs with those deemed to be better run. The fact the RFL failed to do that is the RFL's fault and no one else's.

Clubs will mismanage financially whatever system you put in place. They did before licensing and they will after it.

The RFL clearly want to blame the licensing system itself when in fact it was the buffoons at the RFL who failed to police it.

Thanks Dave.

A depressing read. No analysis of the underlying problems of the game and assumptions that things will work (promotion and relegation) and do work (the SC) without any analysis.

I despair.

With that Deano you have touched on a very important point.

There has been a lot said about getting more money into the game, more sponsers.

Well lets say I am one of those approached, a potential invester and I take a good top to bottom look at the game.

As part of my digging I come on here and other forums and see.

The governing body is getting blamed for everything wrong in the game and there is even mention of a vote of no confidence in them.

I take a look at the things they are being blamed for, lets call it the minus page and it's massive.

I take a look at the positives being mentioned, lets call it the plus page and it's blank.

I see that in the Flag Ship comp it is being said that outside the top 4 or 5 clubs every other club is dross.

I see that there are not enough quality players to change the above standards.

I see that the next level on the pyramid is being described as under supported and incapable of ever being able to improve on the dross above them.

I see an admittance that there is little investment from other organisations and individuals like me, my peers are not touching the sport.

I see that even those who are supposed to be at the top,taking the lead and Championing "The Greatest Game" are thinking only of themselves and as a result the sport is tearing itself apart.

I hear their words and see their actions which show they have no real faith or confidence in their own sport.

Hardly suprisingly I don't have any confidence in the sport either and I as I drive away those who I see in my rear view mirror can't understand why and blame someone else again.
Truth is there isn't anyone else to blame, just them standing there.
Need i go on.

I am not sure what you are trying to say. The product sponsors pay for is currently SL. It currently delivers the second highest viewing figures after soccer for professional team sports.

The fact the RFL has failed to secure a sponsor when other less well supported and less watched sports have is to the RFL's detriment.

Now that is simply the sponsorship and commercial angle.

The other side of this is what the RFL are saying in their policy review, why they are saying it and what any conclusions they draw are based on.

You can disagree with IL and the other SL clubs all you like but if you are objective and read that document I can't believe any intelligent person would conclude it is remotely sound. It is awful.

If the governing body is getting blamed it is because it deserves it! I still can't get over the statement lest week about micro managing clubs being why they didn't get the marketing right. Utterly unbelievable.

This whole matter of the SL clubs taking on the RFL tells us all that there's been a power shift in Super League.
We've all talked about the tail wagging the dog, well perhaps now the dog is finally going to wag the tail!
If the clubs supposedly led by IL have a majority over the lower end clubs plus the Hetheringtons then Rugby League is going to improve. The changes needed to bring about that improvement are still to be discussed. The RFL say that discussions are to be put back until after the World Cup, that is bluster.
If the new power bases in SL have the majority and are not going to vote through the RFL proposals then those proposals are dead in the water.
The new view to take the game forward will come from the SL clubs and their new power base.
It may well be that they have already spoken to SKY and know they can get a far better deal from the broadcasters than the RFL have been obtaining.
Any further allocations of monies will depend on SKY and their agreeing to the new but to be finalised plans of SL.
They may agree on an even distribution between clubs, alternatively they may allocate more money to London given the massive extra cost of running a business operation in the capital. An allowance may be given to Catalans to protect them from currency fluctuations re £/Euro. Both of those clubs could be given concessions re non federation players as there are no federation clubs in close proximity to either London or Catalans.
Whatever plans are forthcoming they will be from the new SL power base and IMO bear no relation to what has gone on before.
We obviously won't hear anything about this for some weeks but exciting times for Rugby League could very well be known about by the end of the year.
We now have many wealthy businessmen running SL clubs who have far more corporate expertise than those in the RFL. Their knowledge of industry and what is needed to make Rugby League successful is more likely to be successful than the offerings of the RFL for the past number of years.
Exciting times ahead!

Dav0. Part Quote

"I am not sure what you are trying to say."

I know.

Time to wait and see.

Isn't the current RFL CEO the same man who ran Halifax into the ground?

Well I am wading my way through the report. I could pick up on plenty but just look at this for stupidity:

[i5.2.2 However, the inescapable conclusion is that the stability of league status
that is delivered in a licensed league environment has not positively
affected financial decision making by some clubs, to the point where club
losses have actually increased during the term.

5.2.3 Similarly, some of the gains made in facilities and home grown player
production, during the Licensing term, may well have been achieved
irrespective of Licensing.[/i

So lets get this right. They argue the improvements could have happened anyway but ignore the possibility losses could have increased without licensing, i.e. have happened anyway!!

This is ludicrous.

Here is is another:

5.2.5 [iSuper League Licensing has also resulted in an increased amount of RFL
Executive time and energy being exhausted in assessing applicants or
assisting those awarded a licence through financial or operational
difficulty. This effort has undoubtedly hampered the RFL’s ability to
improve the commercial and operational position of the sport.[/i

WTF were you paid to do then? The idea enforcing the rules impacted in your ability to market the game is ludicrous. They are separate jobs!

And then we get this:

[i5.2.6 Consequently many clubs, broadcasters and fans believe that access into
and out of Tier 1 (Super League) should be more transparent and
determined primarily (but not exclusively) by on-field performance, with
clubs standing and falling based upon their own efforts.

5.2.7 A version of Promotion and Relegation should therefore replace the
current Super League Licensing system with each club standing or falling
on its own merits.

5.2.8 The issue then becomes how Promotion and Relegation can return in a
sustainable way, given the scarcity of playing talent, the funding
differentials that exist and the timescales between the end of one season
and the start of the following. In essence will it ever be possible to move
from being the best club in an ostensibly part time league to a legitimate
and credible member of a full time competition at three months’ notice? [/i

Read 5.2.6. Consequently... Consequently? Consiquent on your own straw man arguments you mean!

Halifax ran themselves into the ground because they were rubbish on the pitch and were relegated in 2003 after losing every game on the pitch!!

The effect of the drop was massive and they did not recover in time before the door was shut.

Wood had moved on by then in 2001 to the RFL.

Wood was at Fax in 1996 when they joined SL and chose the stupid name of Blue Sox, this was at a time when they were reeling from the aftermath of the proposed merger with Bradford which led to their multi millionaire backers of Mr Gartland and Marsland leaving the club as a result of the fans backlash over the proposals.

Wood was there in 1998 when Wigans old mate John Pendlebury got the best out of Fax with a 3rd place SL finnish down at the Shay.