Good post. I find it hard to criticise Sarge for one lapse when he works so hard and does so much good stuff.

It's a good job Bowen didn't fling that pass, he'd have been summarily disembowelled on here.

I don't understand why he is so immune to criticism yet Bowen gets absolute hell.

His defense is terrible and his brain explosions and mistakes have cost us the challenge cup and a Wigan - Saints derby. If he had an Aussie accent he wouldn't stand a chance with our fans. Imagine if Bowen or Gelling had made those mistakes.

I think sargison is a victem of his own success with his performance last year for wigsn and england but he's not took it to the next level this year.

Id be more worried about SOL. He looks a shadow of the player he was and the injuries look to have taken its toll.

I don't think Sarge is immune from criticism, far from it, he's had plenty here. Especially on his defence. He had a couple of poor games, but was still one of our better performers last night in my view. As for the comparison with Bowen, if Bowen involved himself as much as Sarge does, maybe he'd be cut a bit more slack.

I think some of that Sarge incident lies with Charnley, it's a daft pass, but it wasn't a complete brain fast, they'd been passing it in their own 20 a few times. Charnley was completely switched off. You can't do that in sport.

Sarginsons fault pure and simple, stupid pass poorly executed how any of it was down to Charnley is beyond me...................

Because Wigan had done passes like that 5-6 times in the match. They were doing dangerous offloads in their own 20 frequently. The pass sat in front of Charnley and he was completely switched off.

Again, you don't switch off in your own 20. You be ready for the pass everytime even if it dosen't come to you. I'd say it's 70/30 Sarginson/Charnley. Sarge shouldn't have thrown the pass, but Charnley should have caught it since it wasn't a bad pass.

Leeds do it all the time, but they're expecting it so it's works every time. They're all tuned in and expecting as pass even if it's not the done thing.

Quote ="Mugwump"Sarginson's problem is the same as Tomkins' problem. He's playing in a side whose tactical emphasis is high-octane "shoot out" rugby. Most teams attack from the inside out - or, from the forwards to the edges. Wigan attack from the edges straight out to the wings. Do not pass to the forward pack. Do not collect £200 etc. Because Wigan either don't possess a functioning pack of forwards or use such solely as an adjunct to its emphasis on attacking through the backs the likes of Sarginson and Tomkins see a disproportionately high amount of ball (compared with, say, someone such as Mark Percival at Saints). Wigan's centres have a much greater responsibility heaped on them. They are crucial to the team's chances of success and should either of them have an off day things go south in a big way. Wigan's particular style of play is absolutely merciless against teams who are either soft in the middle or have weak defenders outside. One missed tackle and the next minute you're kicking off for the restart. Sadly, this is the defacto standard for all but the top four sides - which means Wigan get plenty of opportunity to do what they do best. I mean, I genuinely do have a lot of respect for the way the club has developed its back division and the attacking brio it has instilled in players from the first team down to the juniors. It really is a model for the other clubs to emulate. =#FF0000The problem arrives when the other team doesn't miss tackles. Under normal circumstances you'd expect the playmakers to pull the ball in tighter and wait for the right opportunity to strike. Unfortunately, Wane seems to think that his players are sufficiently good that such conservatism (or call it - pragmatism) isn't necessary and business can carry on as usual. It's at this point that players such as Sarginson and Tomkins come under enormous pressure. It's one thing to be the tip of the spear against an opponent whose defence leaks like a tea-bag. It's quite another thing entirely when you are constantly being smashed on or close to the advantage line. Worse still if you are behind on the scorecard. Given the amount of ball both Wigan centres see it really should come as no surprise that one or both court calamity in tough, physical games. Nerves stretch to breaking point and one of them is bound to try just that bit too hard and throw a pass which just isn't on. If I were either Sarginson or Tomkins I'd be demanding to know why they are shouldering so much of the burden to win the game whilst the front six are - either by design or just a general lack of quality - twiddling their thumbs. I certainly don't see Sarginson's current form as a true reflection of his worth. I mean, I think Mark Percival is a fantastic prospect who will doubtless go on to represent his country many times. But you put Percival in that Wigan side and place the same extreme demands on him to perform and he'd likely crumple also. It's too much responsibility for anyone. And both Sarginson and Tomkins look like players who've been crushed under the weight of it for a long and arduous season.'" Saints missed more tackle as a percentage of tackles made than Wigan. The problem was Wigans error count of 14 to Saints 6 which meant that they had to make 90 more tackles. www.superleague.co.uk/report/11139

Quote ="Mugwump"Sarginson's problem is the same as Tomkins' problem. He's playing in a side whose tactical emphasis is high-octane "shoot out" rugby. Most teams attack from the inside out - or, from the forwards to the edges. Wigan attack from the edges straight out to the wings. Do not pass to the forward pack. Do not collect £200 etc. Because Wigan either don't possess a functioning pack of forwards or use such solely as an adjunct to its emphasis on attacking through the backs the likes of Sarginson and Tomkins see a disproportionately high amount of ball (compared with, say, someone such as Mark Percival at Saints). Wigan's centres have a much greater responsibility heaped on them. They are crucial to the team's chances of success and should either of them have an off day things go south in a big way. Wigan's particular style of play is absolutely merciless against teams who are either soft in the middle or have weak defenders outside. One missed tackle and the next minute you're kicking off for the restart. Sadly, this is the defacto standard for all but the top four sides - which means Wigan get plenty of opportunity to do what they do best. I mean, I genuinely do have a lot of respect for the way the club has developed its back division and the attacking brio it has instilled in players from the first team down to the juniors. It really is a model for the other clubs to emulate. =#FF0000The problem arrives when the other team doesn't miss tackles. Under normal circumstances you'd expect the playmakers to pull the ball in tighter and wait for the right opportunity to strike. Unfortunately, Wane seems to think that his players are sufficiently good that such conservatism (or call it - pragmatism) isn't necessary and business can carry on as usual. It's at this point that players such as Sarginson and Tomkins come under enormous pressure. It's one thing to be the tip of the spear against an opponent whose defence leaks like a tea-bag. It's quite another thing entirely when you are constantly being smashed on or close to the advantage line. Worse still if you are behind on the scorecard. Given the amount of ball both Wigan centres see it really should come as no surprise that one or both court calamity in tough, physical games. Nerves stretch to breaking point and one of them is bound to try just that bit too hard and throw a pass which just isn't on. If I were either Sarginson or Tomkins I'd be demanding to know why they are shouldering so much of the burden to win the game whilst the front six are - either by design or just a general lack of quality - twiddling their thumbs. I certainly don't see Sarginson's current form as a true reflection of his worth. I mean, I think Mark Percival is a fantastic prospect who will doubtless go on to represent his country many times. But you put Percival in that Wigan side and place the same extreme demands on him to perform and he'd likely crumple also. It's too much responsibility for anyone. And both Sarginson and Tomkins look like players who've been crushed under the weight of it for a long and arduous season.'" Saints missed more tackle as a percentage of tackles made than Wigan. The problem was Wigans error count of 14 to Saints 6 which meant that they had to make 90 more tackles. www.superleague.co.uk/report/11139

I'd agree with this. It's wasn't great, but Charnely wasn't exactly looking for/expecting the pass.

And of course, if Sarge had been looking too, that would have helped...

Sarginson probably would have scored if he hadn't have been illegally shoved to the side after his kick (the one where Masoe ran back and picked it up).

If a contract for Sarg really is on offer from Bath/whoever, he should sign it at the first opportunity. Who would want him on current form?
One good game for England does not make him a top player...
Just my view.

If Wigan put Sargy on the transfer list there'd be 11 other SL clubs in for him.
He's a terrific talent.
To me he's doing too much work that the forwards should do. OK take the ball up in a set but Sargy is often the first take up in the set. I know it's to get a quick ptb which will put the forwards on the front foot but why can't it be done by a back rower now and again. To me he should come in at the ptb and try to quicken up the pace of our progress up the middle from time to time.

The no look pass to Charnley was awful and he will most certainly have been told about it by now.
Sarginson gives us far, far more than he loses us.
I'd be very happy to hear he'd signed a long torm deal with the club. Sadly those are not the rumours around right now!

The rumours about Sarginson predate his colossal brain-fart last Friday and his recent poor defensive displays.

There's been talk about him wanting to leave since very early this season. If that's true, whether it be to the RU (which I would openly disrespect him for) or to the NRL (which I would grudgingly respect him for) - it seems that yet again a player's agent has managed to persuade his client that, despite much evidence to the contrary, the grass is greener elsewhere. And there isn't much Wigan can do about that, other than offer him silly money which in their eyes he may not be worth (which I would hope they wouldn't do).

So I don't think it's as much a matter of Wigan wanting to get rid of a poor performer as has this performer lost his touch because his head is elsewhere? Is he, in effect, doing a Brian Carney?

If he is, we're better off without him, though I'd be the first to acknowledge that with Thornley and Gelling injured we have no option but to play him at present. In fact, I'm unimpressed by our centres across the board. A couple of years ago, in George Carmont, we had the best centre we've fielded since Steve Renouf. Now we don't seem to have anyone in the club who is actually a real centre.

I don't think anyone can truthfully say Dan hasn't ben putting the effort in. He tries harder than most - and in some cases too hard.

Against saints he was obviously pushing to hard to make up the points and tried a pass that wasn't really on. He's not the first to have done it.

The difference between and inspirational play and an almighty cock-up is pretty small, something that many fans don't really see when they react to players mistakes.

Dead easy for me, Sarginson is nowhere near strong enough for RU and he will get bashed all over the park in NRL, I would be surprised if he played 20 games in a 3 year NRL contract. I don't think he is good enough for Wigan so the NRL is far and away punching above his weight. IMO he hasn't progressed in his time at Wigan, He is still the left side step one trick pony he was when he joined. For a 'player with potential' I would have expected him to have come on leaps and bounds by now but he is too easy to predict now.

People don't like the fact we may be in for Bridge, I would take Bridge over Sarge any day.

That's a very generous reading of the error he made against Saints. I'll acknowledge that it was only one mistake and that it came at a stage in the game where players were tired, plus risks had to be taken etc, but throwing the ball to no-one because you're not looking, and doing that right in front of your own posts, is in no way close to being inspirational play.

However, Shaun Wane was right not to point the finger at individuals. Sarge didn't cost us the game.

I just think that this season, overall, he seems to have retreated from the pretty formidable force he was at the end of last season to being the novice he was when he first arrived. Whether that's because he's planning to leave and can't be bothered any more, I can't say, but it has to be a possibility.

Oh my another ridiculously overrated player

I'm not denying it was a poor error to make. And he has been guilty of flying out of defence too quick and missing the tackle.

But I think he's getting an unfair amount of criticism. As far as i can see he's guilty of trying too hard. Something that Burgess was atbthe start of the season.

There were a number of Wigan fans that even wanted Burgess out of the club at the start of the season!

It's that knee jerk reactive view that i don't understand from fans that supposedly watch the game week in week out.

Players are human. They make mistakes. Sometimes they get away with them, others they are punished.

The big problem with the saints game was our general discipline in the 2nd half. We gave saints far too much easy position and possession which they didn't have to work for. On the back of that then individual mistakes are magnified, some sem to be selected for special attention, others hardly mentioned.

... many of which were a product of - a) Saints not missing tackles and b) Wigan players panicking as the tourniquet tightened.

Well, only a month ago, taking up his extra year's option was announced, so there can't be too many issues there.

I wouldn't count on that. I hope he gets his act together, but the Sarge of 2015 is so far not the Sarge of 2014, IMO.

Sarge was getting alot of stick from our fans for the majority of 2014.

And it was mostly justified. A lot of Sarg's form in 2014 was poor and he didn't look comfortable in either centre position. It was an upward turn of form towards the business end of 2014 and 2 excellent games for England that people seem to use to judge him. He's actually probably been more consistent this year than he was last, but for the defensive howlers that seem to be getting more frequent.

I hope he stays but I don't think it's the end of the world if he moves on.