I disagree with you over the comparison with Bradford but that’s by the by.

This is an idea built on a foundation of sand,that they had barely 23 players before seasons start should have had alarm a ringing but no the usual excuses of the big break through into America/Canada when little proof was ever given that the divide has been crossed.

They have to suffer relegation at least,if Argyle is serious then he will use the time to properly set the company straight if he’s serious the this could be a blessing in disguise,sadly though I think we may well of the Wolfpack.

Excuse me if I'm not rubbing my hands with anticipation should someone like Fev be brought in to replace Toronto next season......

Fair enough, you do raise some good points and don’t get me wrong I don’t believe they were without fault. You brought up (at least I think it was you!) their troubles early on in the season with barely being able to field 17 players and I had concerns they were over paying players and under staffing due to salary cap constraints. Without CV19 they were a shoe in for relegation IMO.

I just don’t believe relegation would be right this season given the disruption and the low chances of the Championship restarting making promotion a contentious issue. And I’d stand by that irrespective of who was in the relegation zone.

I’m not naive enough to think Toronto won’t be knocked back into the Championship. I just don’t think they should be. I do hope this isn’t the end for them, it would be yet another embarrassing expansion catastrophe for SL and rugby league in general.

You'd have a far better time in Fev mate

You really wouldn't. I've done Toronto about five times, the match day experience there is unparalleled in Super League. Some really embarrassing gloating going on about a blow to our sport. I expect it from the usual flatcappers but thought our fans might be a bit more enlightened.

They have one with SportsNet+



Regular home attendances of 8,000 - 10,000 fans would disagree with the notion no one knows anything about them. For a club 3yrs into existence in a city where RL is largely unknown to have an average home attendance larger than a lot of SL clubs is a brilliant achievement. And with respect, one person isn’t indicative of wider knowledge of the Wolfpack.



SBW. Rightly or wrongly those statements were to create headlines and interest. It worked like Tyson Fury saying he was going to KO Wilder in 3 rounds he didn’t do it but it created interest. Simple cheap effective marketing.



And? What do you want them to do? Beat half of SL to get in? They beat who were in front of them. That’s hardly their fault is it?



Like what? The play off final defeat at home to London? And that comparison with Melbourne is ridiculous.

What does SBW have to do with gridiron players playing league all of a sudden which they claimed would happen?

If the Melbourne comparison isn't right then how about using Gold Coast? Canterbury? Wigan? Basically any full time side playing against Whitehaven, Barrow and South Wales. Their "away games" are barely a chore as they all go home to their families (not exactly a GB tour) rather than fly out Friday, play Saturday and come straight back home. Of course, the Wolfpack pay for this.....well 19 seats...so it's ok.

Their TV deal consisted of two games I believe but I'll stand corrected on that one. A quick scan of the website does show the news story of them pulling out but there is no section dedicated to rugby so they hardly see it as a big deal. I'd be interested to see viewing figures.

Their crowds include people who attend a beer festival at one end of the ground. And this 10k is 0.3% of the population of Toronto. I'd therefore wager that most people have no idea who they are.

It was a bold effort and one that may well have worked, but again the RFL tried to run a marathon before they could barely take a step.

Again - exposure. Simple, cheap, effective marketing.



Again - they can only beat who’s in front of them.



I read an article that said all their games were being televised on TV. It was a while ago and I’ll try to find it but like you will stand corrected if wrong.



Ah similar to Magic Weekend then?

And Wigan’s average attendance is 11,308 in 2019. The population of Wigan (as of 201icon_cool.gif was 326,088 giving an average of 3.6% of Wigan attending home games. By comparison the population of Toronto is 2.93million. For them to get even 1% of that means an average gate of 29,300. Just shy of the largest SL match attendance.



Now here I’m not going to disagree. Perhaps they did do it too quick and should have took time to build properly, it’s all hindsight but I hope this isn’t the end. As Grimmy has said, the gloating comments by some are an embarassment.

Been to Fev a few times back in the 80s & 90s. I doubt anythings changed.
Think Kes, Brassed Off and Rita Sue and Bob too..... but worse!

Makes Cas look good.

One thing I have been impressed with was the marketing team at Toronto. Their social media campaign literally urinates on most things that any club has done in this country over the last three years, because of this they have built an impressive following on Facebook, just to compare:

Toronto 51k followers (built up in just three years).

Leeds 174k
Hull FC 108k
Wigan 91k
Wire 58k
Saints 54k
Hull KR 29k
Bradford 28k
Fev 14k
Salford 5k

Playing all home games this season would have no doubt seen them shoot above Saints & Wire and probably hot on our tails as well.

Give over. Noute makes Cas look good.

Fev does.

No relegation or promotion confirmed by the RFL. What is interesting though is this bit; Quote “There will be no relegation from the 11-team Betfred Super League in 2020”'" It goes on to say later that there’s no automatic promotion from the Championship. Link - https://www.loverugbyleague.com/post/ch ... n-planned/

No relegation or promotion confirmed by the RFL. What is interesting though is this bit; Quote “There will be no relegation from the 11-team Betfred Super League in 2020”'" It goes on to say later that there’s no automatic promotion from the Championship. Link - https://www.loverugbyleague.com/post/ch ... n-planned/

Quote ="Egg Chasing"They don't have a tv deal. Nobody in North America knows anything about them. (I have a work client based in Toronto and they have no idea who they are) They haven't converted any of the players they claimed they would. They got promoted as the only professional club playing against builders most of whom were unable to travel. Every single card was dealt in their favour. Would be like sticking Melbourne in L1 and being amazed when they mickey the division.'" https://www.torontowolfpack.com/toronto ... on-opener/ they do Leigh were fully pro when London got promoted as im sure London was, thats why when Leigh finished out of the play offs their owner told them to get another club

Quote ="Egg Chasing"They don't have a tv deal. Nobody in North America knows anything about them. (I have a work client based in Toronto and they have no idea who they are) They haven't converted any of the players they claimed they would. They got promoted as the only professional club playing against builders most of whom were unable to travel. Every single card was dealt in their favour. Would be like sticking Melbourne in L1 and being amazed when they mickey the division.'" https://www.torontowolfpack.com/toronto ... on-opener/ they do Leigh were fully pro when London got promoted as im sure London was, thats why when Leigh finished out of the play offs their owner told them to get another club

No promotion or relegation has been confirmed and the lower divisions will not resume in 2020.

This Covid situation that nobody could have predicted has claimed enough victims in so many different ways, I’m hopeful rugby league development isn’t one of them.

Clearly it hasn’t done without issues and I’m unsure about the financial issues but I understand the visa issues and sympathise with those as nobody could possibly have seen those arising.

I’m an expansionist, I’ve played rugby in Canada including Ottawa and Toronto ,all be it Union and 22 years ago, but the market is there without doubt they loved it and back in those days it was in its infancy too.

I’m confident with patience this will be a huge success for the game, look at the headlines they have generated already in the mainstream media.

Rugby League is a product you couldn’t design better for the North American market and it must be allowed to continue in 2021.

Nobody is gloating, just facing the fact that Rugby League will never take off in Canada and the USA at a professional level when they have so many established sports to watch which now includes the world wide game of Football.

Do Rugby Union which is even a bigger code of rugby in our country have a professional club in the Rugby Union Premiership.

No, because the RFU have got more sense, knowing that that it would be doomed to failure.

One or two supporters on here need to come into the world of reality and out of the the world of make fantasy.

Exaactly, you played in the established game of Rugby Union 22 years ago, a code which is more well known in North America and the world as proved by the number of nations that participate in the Rugby Union World Cup.

If our game cannot take off at a professional level in our own country in places like rugby mad South Wales and also Northern France, both of which have been attempted a few seasons ago, what chance has it got in the world of American Football, Baseball, Basketball, Ice Hockey, Rugby Union and Soccer of Canada and the USA.

A few years ago, London Broncos started as Fulham, they too were getting large crowds but they started to go down when the novelty and less quality players were signed and I am in no doubt that the same will happen in Toronto and even Ottawa. New York as time goes on.

Union was far from established back then. I was only 18 at the time but we were seen as a bit of a circus.

We played the National rep side that was age equivalent and absolutely took them to the cleaners they were awful but the games got media coverage both press and TV.

League is now targeting those areas, where union has a structure. There is much less history over there very little animosity.

Union is now fairly established in Canada but now League has an established pro team they can piggy back off that...and they are by targeting Ottawa as well.

There is little to no American football in Canada, and the seasons are winter based and fairly short in the NFL.

The county is crying out for a Summer contact game but it needs time.

Yep agree totally

Best that we don't bother, let's stay in the m62 and not bother growing. Best not to try.

I remember the history of League, it started when Rugby Union was 100% of the of rugby option. Maybe that was the first mistake?

If no sanctions are taken against Toronto what's to stop another club Hull , HKR or even Wigan doing the same if it is financially prudent to do so .

Paying SBW the huge wages whatever they are then claiming they can't find 2 million Canadion dollars to compete this year seems a bit hollow to me .

Regards EW

Correct mate

Agreed.