Sams reply. www.samtomkins.com/blog/i-want-t ... n-purpose/

Sams reply. www.samtomkins.com/blog/i-want-t ... n-purpose/

Something tells me Maurice Lindsay would never let Sam leave earlier than the contract he signed demanded.

I have been a Wigan fan since the late 1950's and hope this is not true.

However, money talks and bull walks!

It is something many have suspected.

Even though I am not Sean Wanes biggest fan, I feel for him, in that he has probably had no/very little money to build the team with.

Quote ="Rogues Gallery"Sams reply. www.samtomkins.com/blog/i-want-t ... n-purpose/'" Which doesn't tell us anything from the orthodox 'official' line does it ?

Quote ="Rogues Gallery"Sams reply. www.samtomkins.com/blog/i-want-t ... n-purpose/'" Which doesn't tell us anything from the orthodox 'official' line does it ?

But this is the point.

A player could still play but peform "below par".

Dropping the odd ball, missing that tackle etc etc etc

Quote ="XBrettKennyX"But this is the point. A player could still play but peform "below par". Dropping the odd ball, missing that tackle etc etc etc'" No that could never happen.. www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/23703265 Ok maybe then

Quote ="XBrettKennyX"But this is the point. A player could still play but peform "below par". Dropping the odd ball, missing that tackle etc etc etc'" No that could never happen.. www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/23703265 Ok maybe then

Quote ="exiled Warrior"No that could never happen.. www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/23703265 Ok maybe then'" Haha Nice timing from Mr Savage. Do you think he reads these forums? This is the point though in a nutshell. DaveO - You cannot simply point to a contract and identify "black and white" clauses that may well legally point to one issue or the other. Whilst this is no doubt correct from a legal and technical standpoint, it simply does not translate into a real world situation. I am sure Sam could be "forced" into staying if he wants to leave. However, you cannot force him to play to his ability (or even measure the fact that he isn't doing so). The whole thing is nonsense. It was wrong of IL to accept the plaudits when Sam signed, it's wrong to levy the blame at IL IF Sam wants away. Now if it's IL who instigated the whole affair then that's a different story.

Quote ="exiled Warrior"No that could never happen.. www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/23703265 Ok maybe then'" Haha Nice timing from Mr Savage. Do you think he reads these forums? This is the point though in a nutshell. DaveO - You cannot simply point to a contract and identify "black and white" clauses that may well legally point to one issue or the other. Whilst this is no doubt correct from a legal and technical standpoint, it simply does not translate into a real world situation. I am sure Sam could be "forced" into staying if he wants to leave. However, you cannot force him to play to his ability (or even measure the fact that he isn't doing so). The whole thing is nonsense. It was wrong of IL to accept the plaudits when Sam signed, it's wrong to levy the blame at IL IF Sam wants away. Now if it's IL who instigated the whole affair then that's a different story.

Every player has his price/value. It's always been the same and always will be.

For me it's not about forcing individuals to stay and play, it's about getting the message out there that it's a waste of time trying to lure our contracted players.

i for one can't wait for it to be over with, if he is leaving then so be it, if then then we get a bit more out of him.

i genuinely believe he's just been struggling with fitness of late and i hope the pampering he's had of late will reap benefits going into the CC Final and playoffs, but at the end of the day no player is bigger than the club and at least hampshire has had some decent game time who looks a great prospect.

sam has moved to right the critics wrong regarding his lack of match fitness of late so lets leave it to the team, hopefully including sam, to do the talking over the coming weeks.

who cares what the contract may or may not say - if he's leaving let him go, it will be better for the team all around looking towards next year and beyond and hopefully the club will get a good fee out of it too.

Totally agree

So in this hypothetical scenario, Sam wants to leave, NZ warriors want to buy him.

You can enforce the contract and force Sam to stay......but you cannot force him to play well.

So you end up paying a large chunk of your CC to a player who isn't interested.

Not the best scenario is it?

Yes but what benefit is there to the supporter under the current situation.

What good is the money to the supporter?

The CC changes the dynamics of this old fashioned argument.

If you only look at player replacement on a like for like basis, then yes, but if the money is used in other areas, scouting, youth development, club infrastructure etc then no.

The scenario could just as well read..... We prevent Sam from leaving and he knuckles down like the pro he is and gets on with it. The Rabbitohs see this and realise there is no point in trying to entice Josh away from the club and they therefore direct their efforts elsewhere. Plus we let the world know that this club will stand by its principles and won't roll over for anybody. IMO retaining that self respect is getting to be more of a priority. Any other stance merely let the drain continue. IMO of course.

You mean the largely intangible and immeasurable areas that can be used to justify anything?

Ok.

Yeah I mean it's not like our youth development reaps very obvious rewards..... How did we come by Sam again?

Bl00dy rubbish Wigan

You mistake the point.

Obviously youth development is a good idea.

However, it's very easy to use it as a "catch all".

Players of the calibre of Sam Tomkins come along once every generation. Not every year.

To lose them/him, seemingly without a fight, is disgraceful IMHO.

What about Charnley, Goulding, Mossop, Crosby, McIlorum, Hansen, Farrell, O'Loughlin, Tuson and Hampshire, did they all come out of thin air as well? That's just players we produced who I'd have at Wembley, never mind all the reserves. I can't understand how any Wigan fan can claim money spent on youth development yields no tangible results.

Losing Sam without a fight is a different point. Having said that, did we not increase his contract numerous times and even lobby the RFL to change the rules so he can earn money outside of the game. I'd say we've been fighting to keep him ever since 2009

I don't think I do mistake the point. You're saying extra money to the club is no good to the fans, I'd say there's a hell of a lot of untapped potential we could make use of, given the resources, and that the progress we've made so far supports my point. Ploughing money into development could yield 2 Tomkins'. Which obviously benefits the fans. I don't think you disagree that it's a good idea, I just think you're not giving it the credence it deserves.

The bit I've underlined is the problem.

Sam is a unique talent in this day and age, so yes, to lose him without a fight would be a disgrace. But until we know for sure that's what's happened, I feel we should keep our powder reasonably dry.

Given he's best player in Britain by a country mile, and that Britain is way down the pecking-order in world RL, you can surely see that it would be extraordinarily difficult, if not impossible, for us to hang onto players in that category indefinitely - far more so than it ever was in the past.

In the light of that, it's highly, highly possible that Wigan have fought hard to keep Sam and have simply, inevitably failed. I recommend you don't cut ties with the club until you know for certain that this hasn't happened.

"Ploughing money into development" and spending money to attract top quality players are not mutually exclusive you know.

Given Wigan RL is the most famous brand in RL in the UK and arguably the world, is it too much to expect?

But as I explained, it's not just about development. There's scouting, video analysis, player education, specialist coaching, medical recovery equipment etc. all things that can help to give us that winning edge.

There's far more to running a club than players.