Let's remember that when Pat returns to action, Gelling will be moved back to the bench anyway. In the meantime, I see no point in shifting Goulding, who has been one of the revelations of the season at right centre. I don't know what that is - whether it's Wane's coaching or whether it's just Darrell's time - but I think it would be criminal to shift him out of a position that he has totally made his own this year.

I don't think Gelling's been a disaster, anyway. He's still a big handful for the opposition, and, as others have said, once he starts to click with George, he'll be a potent threat. But I wish someone would take him to one side and say: "If you see an open line, go for it. Don't stop, don't pass, don't step inside, don't step outside, don't dummy, don't kick, don't fumble - just go for it!"

Personally I think the majority of trys we have "bombed" could also be blamed on Carmont. He is used to a partnership with Pat where Pat stays deep. But Gelling prefers to be closer. If George looked more Gelling may have scored last night.

Just to bring people back to their senses.... karl Pryce did well last night, perhaps we should get him back?

No? I thought not. Be patient, look at the cup draw, look at the table, look at our points scored, we need to have faith in the future.

This

....and Lima when he first came..... he looks decent to me, just give him time. You think people on here would learn to reserve judgement rather than jump in and criticise after a just a few games.

Gelling is a work in progress, given his chance soone r than Wane would have expected IMO.

Has potential to be the next Pat, great in the air, but faster on the pitch. Hence the reason why Shuds were blocking him in the air.

For now he is being let down by his positional play and fitness, both of which can be coached or adressed.

Just look at his meters this season and also remember Pats first season, when he was coming over as SOO and grand finalist, so way in advance in development that Gelling is.


Stick with and not chop Gelling as this will screw his confidence. We didnt need the 5 or so tries he has fluffed, but all of which will make him more determined to succeed.

He filled in for Carmont when he was injured at then beginning of the season but he also filled in for Goulding last week.

IMO Gellng needs a couple of weeks in the 20s, I agree that shifting Goulding to the left wing would be too disruptive overall, especially as the Goulding/Charnley partnership on the right is flourishing. Lenegan could do with getting Offiah and Robinson down to the training ground to have a word with Gelling about backing himself a bit better. I do think he will come good, but atm he is making too many erros and his positioning is woeful. Seems to be trying too hard as well which is making things worse, needs 2 or 3 weeks out of the limelight and we can see how Ryan King gets on.

Move the in-form centre of the club and possible the whole league.

Let's reward him and his wing partner by moving him and separating them.

I'd be happier with King or Murphy (or even Joe Burgess) on the wing instead of Gelling. I can honestly say I've never in my life seen a winger in Super League look as lost as Gelling does on the wing. He hasn't got a clue where to stand!

When he returns the ball he's fantastic, he's strong in the air and he's very good with ball in hand until he sees space and then he hasn't a clue what to do. That's not all you need from a winger though.

He's been woefully out of position in attack on many occasions and if he is going to continue on the wing he should be playing on the wing for the under 20's. I have a feeling they have a break coming up soon for the 9's so Gelling's job in the coming weeks should be to win us the 9's tournament.

A question what bilko might know how many tries has Goulding put Charnley in for this season?

From my memory Sam has put him in for more

Including last night Goulding has 7 try assists. This obviously also does not take into account the times when Goulding has passed to say Sam against Hull KR or Sean O'Loughlin against Leeds (always remember that great run around) who then passed to Charnley. As a comparison Gleeson had 4 try assists for the entire season when Goulding scored 25 tries.

He needs some time in the reserves to work on his handling and positioning, that's for sure. Yes, I agree he does a lot of good work making the hard yards out of defence, but that's not a winger's main role - if that was all we wanted, might as well put a second rower out there. Those three errors he made in attack didn't matter against Hudds, but could well have against better teams, and he's averaging that number of errors per match. He was also at least partly to blame for their try down that side, coming in with a pretty ineffectual effort on their centre.

He's got massive potential, but needs a lot more work still.

I'd take him out of the fire for a couple of weeks now. He's had a promising start and just looks to be losing a little confidence in playing a position thats just not him. I remember reading on the NZ Warriors website they didn't really feel he was a centre last year and that he was more of a second row so for us to be playing him on the wing probably sums up a few issues he's having.

Ryan King should play at the magic weekend. He's a cracking young talent and a natural wingman and playing alongside Carmont will really help his development. If we get him in and he does well the squad depth will grow again and we'll have an extra option.

My point in that is how can moving Goulding disrupt the team?

Only trouble is - Both were given a chance early in the season, and King showed that, whilst he has great attacking moves, his defence is atrocious.

Gelling works harder FOR THE TEAM, makes more hard yards, tackles more and is generally a better fit than King right now IMO.

As harsh as it may seem, King is still at the phase where he could go either way - Martin Offiah or Kevin Penny. (Bit extreme, I know, but you get the gist).

Gelling has a far more solid all around game and has been seen to make a MASSIVE number of metres, which helps the team immensely even if he, himself, doesn't score.

Yes, he needs to learn where George is likely to put the ball (although 50% of that is down to Geaorge, to learn where his new winger NEEDS the ball), and he needs to figure out exactly when to go and when to offload. That will only come with time and practise though.

I believe we should use the loan system for King. Worked wonders for Charnley and Goulding.

My thoughts exactly.

Wouldn't argue much with that.

King certainly showed no signs of poor defence for the first team, he got his opportunity in a pretty one sided game. In the under 20's he's been fine defending outside a good centre, and a little shaky outside a weaker centre. Gelling's defence has been far from perfect, particularly in terms of positioning.

If making metres was the most important thing for a winger then why not play Jack Hughes on the wing? He'd run the ball back like a forward too. As for tackling more, you generally don't want your winger to tackle unless he's tackling his opposite number or tackling the ball carrier on an overlap. The more tackles a winger makes the more he risks being caught out of position by a smart hooker.

The metres Gelling makes are great, but they aren't irreplaceable. We've done fine making metres without Gelling in the side so it's obviously not been an issue previously. It's not a case of Gelling makes lots of metres so that means we won't make those metres if he doesn't play.

While I see the benefits of playing Gelling on the wing, if he shows no improvement in the basics (which so far appears to be the case) then we'll never know if we actually have a winger who can play when Richards is injured.

Pat's injury has provided the perfect time to test any potential wing replacement, not just one.

It's alright saying George needs to learn when and where his winger needs the ball but from what we've seen so far Gelling needs the ball a few yards ahead of where Carmont receives it and several seconds earlier.

There must be a point where actually scoring tries and being able to finish becomes important for a winger. So far Gelling has struggled with finishing and positioning, two of the most important things that a winger needs to be able to do.

Gelling is obviously this years go to man for criticism. Since McIllorum and Goulding have both been playing outstanding. Gelling is not a natural winger, he is a centre. You can tell that, as he doesn't have that natural finishing sense that most lads who have played wing throughout their junior careers have. This will come in time. But that is only one aspect of the game.

The Widnes game aside [where he was shocking he has hardly put a foot wrong in defence, is so dependable under the high ball, and makes plenty of meters when coming out of our half. I'd say he's doing pretty damn well. Another performance like Friday and he will have to be dropped, no doubt about it, as that was Wane's policy at the beginning of the year.

He is far from the finished article, but, has showed more heart, passion & promise than the last big back we bought showed in his entire career at Wigan.

Comparing him favourably to KP is fairly faint praise.

Being "far from the finished article" is pretty much what everyone's saying, really - the main debate seems to be about where his finishing should take place, whether in the first team or the reserves. My own view is that there are others (also not finished articles) who also deserve a chance to see what they can do.

A new winger has to be brought in a.s.a.p.

What about pat?

King was injured for pre season wasn't he?

He's played one game in the cup for the first team scoring two try's whilst having nothing to do in defence. It was a tough game to judge him on but I'd hardly say both him and Gelling have had 'chances'.

I like Gelling and the hard work he does for the team is brilliant but we don't need to overplay him and ruin his confidence.

One player I'd like us to have available at the moment who I think would do well in what I believe will be his long term position of wing is Steffan Marsh. This could have been a great opportunity for him.

These "others" get their chance to show what they can do EVERY SINGLE DAY, in training.

Obviously Shaun Wane, along with the rest of the coaching staff, believe that Gelling is the best option we have right now, to replace Pat.

If they show that they have more to offer, or would be better suited against certain opposition, I have no doubt whatsoever that Shaun will play them, as he's not exactly averse to giving the youngsters a go, is he?

Fair point.

Not according to the tirade that Wane let out on SKY on Friday.