You hang on to your top 2 in April trophy. When’s the parade?

Tha t seems a long,long time ago now

Going into the Warrington game I think we need to go back to basics with the team and start again and get some consistency maybe a bit of confidence as a result.

Pick a settled team:

1 - Field
2 - French
3 - King
4 - Wardle
5 - Marshall
6 - Cust
7 - Smith
8 - Singleton
9 - Powell
10 - Byrne
11 - Farrell
12 - Isa/Shorrocks
13 - Smithies

14 - Ellis
15 - Hill
16 - Mago
17 - Isa/Shorrocks/O’Neil

Play the next 3 games with this, adjust to suit after that.

In all seriousness based on last nights game I’d happily swap Cust and Hampshire for Brodie Croft, have that settled halfback partner for Smith and take a bit of pressure off him.

I don't think dropping Bevan French is going to solve our issues.

Playing Bevan at 6 though will not work either. There's two options - French at 1 with Field at 6 or Field at 1 and French at 5. I'm not sure we should abandon the first option on the basis of one very poor game in Field's first game back.

Spoke to one of the Saints forwards at the driving range this morning - this was his assessment. 'Good backs, s*** forwards. No power in their pack'.

No different to the "our seasons over" talk in June.

We'll get some bodies back and we'll be tough to beat again. A bit like how Saints were losing games but are now winning them again. Amazing what happens when your best players are fit and able to play.

Forgot French so I changed it quickly after.

That quote from the Saints player should be printed off and pinned up in the training area for the forwards to take as a challenge.

He's right though and everyone knows it.

We have a 'weak' pack as it is and losing 4 or 5 of them makes it worse.

I’ve not said the season is over, I’m questioning the state of players within the side who have no competition and the lack of depth in the squad. We will most likely do what we always do and pick up some wins against the weaker sides and end up in the play offs before bowing out in another lacklustre big game. That Challenge Cup win last year hasn’t half painted over some gaping cracks, we were awful in that too for the majority. Our ‘culture’ at the minute is to not really strive to be the best but never mind, we have a cracking trophy cabinet and send whiskey to everyone so it’s all good.

When we played the Roosters in 2014 Radlinski wrote a blog saying we're too small a team - 9 years later and we're still too small in the forwards, especially the back row. That needs to be addressed as a matter of urgency for next season (along with a goal kicking 6).

Rads actually said at the time that the signings of Mago and Ellis were expressly for this reason.

Ellis is decent, puts in a shift but Mago is just Feka mk2 - in the second half against Saints he was so slow in the defensive line (turns like a supertanker) that he was pretty much a passenger, size isn't everything. We do need size but not at the cost of anything else - we desperately need at least one experienced heavyweight prop plus perhaps a decent impact prop, Saints have a good impact prop off the bench we don't.

I wasn't giving my opinion on the 2 players. I was merely pointing out, in response to the previous poster, that the issue of the pack size was mentioned as a reason for their signings. I think we all agree that Mago hasn't worked out. Ellis I like, and I'd like to see him stay. I'm reasonably confident we'll get 2 more "middles" as well as Walters.

I would definitely take the 06/07 version of Feka over Patrick Mago.

Except you won’t be tough to beat again because you never were. You are mid table for a reason. Your recruitment is woeful and has been for a number of years

If that is a fact can you explain how the mighty Saints came unstuck at the DW and in last season’s Challenge Cup semifinal?

By the way, I agree with you about our recruitment apart from Field and French.

Never rated Feka.
Not fit and probably never was during his career. Wind and bluster for 5 minutes then the opposition could forget about him.
Mago adds nothing to the squad. Another “impact” prop. No aggression and no fitness. Again probably never been fit during his career. A big lad who probably bullied his way through schoolboy rugby.
Players like this only get game time due excessive interchanges and shortsighted coaches.

I agree - but he gave us 5 minutes more than Mago.is giving us currently.

Cooper replaces Mago.
Isa replaces Shorrocks
Havard replaces Hill.

We’ve got 3 regulars missing. Who are the other 2??

Mago’s only attribute is his offload which I suspect he’s been told to stop doing.
Feka’s only attribute was 5 minutes of huff and puff.
Both not worthy of a jersey. Both not fit enough to play professionally. You’ve got to blame coaches for accommodating them.
I dislike “impact” players. If your good enough you start and you can play 80 minutes.

KPP either starting or on the bench would be one. Bateman (going into the season at least) would be another. I think perhaps more importantly than just the numbers out is it severely affects the ability for proper rotation. Mago and Hill are playing very short minutes which is upping the workload on the other front rowers. Havard replaces Hill is a supreme example of this. Havard is a 60 minute 100+ metre per game prop. Hill isn't (at least not yet).

Hill I’d put ahead of Mago going forward. I thought he did really well on Friday and should’ve done more minutes. Some of the defensive efforts from Mago were diabolical. I’d rather rotate that last bench spot between Hill and Nsemba and stop flogging the dead horse that is Mago. He had an improved run going in to Friday but you just can’t trust him when it matters the most.

Who does KPP replace?

I’m unsure as to why Hill is doing such short stints. Fitness level? Coach protecting him? Coach not trusting him?
Why did we sign Mago? Another nrl signing whose fitness levels are almost non existent.
Not sure what you mean Phuzzy by proper rotation. 20 minutes spells or longer when we have injuries? Ellis I suspect could do longer minutes from the get go but does them now to cover Mago.

We could have refused Bateman’s transfer. Obviously having a disgruntled player in the squad is bad but sometimes you have to make a statement.

Oh, I'm not disagreeing with you re: retention and recruitment Itchy. My post actually agrees with this. It's the fact that the incoming aren't even close to replacing the unavailable ones that makes the problem more than one of pure numbers. To put it more simply, you could have 5 players out but if the 5 replacements are equally as good then the numbers out are of little consequence.

Take the Wire 11 props missing (just joking) as an example of what I mean. It's not really a loss if you have Dudson missing but Bullock replacing him. Or in our own case (the stand off issue notwithstanding) if Field is replaced by French at fullback.

Our problem in the pack is that those out have no direct (or even acceptable) replacements.

KPP would be a starter instead of Isa in your examples or would have replaced a bench player if Isa starts.

The problem with Isa or KPP on the bench would mean only 2 props on the bench assuming we go with our customary hooker on the bench. With only Havard and Ellis capable of long minutes we would end up playing Isa or KPP at prop at some point. Just not good enough.
I’ve said for sometime that our squad is too thin and too inexperienced. We started the season with no experienced 6 and virtually zero cover in an already lightweight backrow. I’m not a Bateman fan so even if he had remained our backrow would have been too lightweight.

I’ve not totally written us off but I’d be pretty surprised if any team that has won the GF had 40+ points posted against them twice halfway through the season. Hopefully we can sneak a win next week against Wire and with a bit of luck we could get another CC final.

Peet has his work cut out to get us a top 6 place at the end of the season with Leyth, HKR and Salford being our main challengers for the 3 remaining places on the assumption that Saints, Catalan and Wire will fill the top 3.
Next season for me we need 2 experienced props, 2 experienced backrow forwards and a HB who has a decent kicking game and ideally,can also kick goals. I suspect we could sign 3 nrl players as part of this assuming Mago, Cust and Miski depart leaving 2 from SL which is a very small pool of very average talent. A very difficult assignment for KR and IL to achieve and it may take 2 years to achieve this.
It will be very interesting to see how recruiting goes over the next few months.

I'm not entirely sure why you would object to a backrower on the bench with a prop rotation of Havard, Ellis, Cooper and Byrne? It's something we have traditionally done with a full compliment of first choice front rowers and someone who can "change a game" from the bench is usually regarded as a good thing. Why would we need to play Isa at prop? I don't understand. That 4 could comfortably cover the full 80 minutes between them without the need for anyone to do long minutes.

The rest I agree with.