due to tv ive seen him a good few times this season and others!! and my following of internationals has shaped my opinion. thought he was shocking at HQ this season and in the play off's last season. alot of your own fans are devided on him at times! thats why i think rocks or diamonds is about right for hock. he looks like a world better or he is poor

Did you watch the playoff game v Bradford last season and also the Bradford and Quins games this season.

This would be when, in a poorly performing team, he was the only forward to give your side problems, scored a try, had another (wrongly) disallowed and still nowhere near played to potential! He's been excellent this season and a handful for every team he's come up against! I'll accept the rocks and diamonds analogy, if only because at times he tries 'too hard' to make things happen, particularly when the team isn't going well, but as for losing us games...I'd be interested to see you point to a single example of that this season.

i think trying too hard could be the thing!! i think with consistant controled performances he could kick on into that top bracket of backrowers

You dont get controlled with Hock and that is the side of him that has sensational games.

Hock so far this hasn't season hasn't done alot wrong for him, he has got frustrated at times but thats because teams like Leeds have targeted him. Saying that though, he still played well and impressed.

your right, especially ball stripping him constantly

"best defence in league target opposition's offloading forward who is prone to loose carry in tackle" - shocker

we have 3 choices:

1. stop play every time the ball is spilled in the tackle, refer loose carries to VR to see if ball was stolen

2. bring in second ref like in oz to clamp down on ruck infringement.

or option 3. take it on the chin and accept it as a part of the game as all teams do it as much as they can get away with it including your own.

ohhhhhhhh!

no need to get sarkey.

Thats what Trolls do isn't it?

Option 3.

But then you cannot complain that he is having bad games, if teams are targeting him and looking to strip the ball on every occasion.

im not a troll i will chat rl till the cows come home!!

i recon on most players wigan tip sheet at most clubs it will say look for hocks off load and loose carries

true, however hock is the most devistating runner of the ball of any 2nd row in the uk. i cannot think of anyone who gets close (westwood perhaps?).

i will take the odd loose carry from him because when he runs that ball in you never know what the outcome will be. he is so exiting to watch and that is his appeal. one min he will knock on or off loading willy nilly the next he is knocking players all over place and making great yards.

the best attacking british 2nd row in the game.

solomona, ali, pelatua and bird?? theres 4 who are better imo!! at worst they are as good. maybe british if you dont include ellis

Hock does more damge then any of them.

Birds a 6 by the way or a loose forward at a push.

watched him a few times on tele this season doesn't do half the work Hock does.

Maybe with a full season under his belt people will see a devasting Pelutua cos the bloke is huge but for me Hock would be the first on my team sheet in any team.

Hock is a destructive player on his day, however he is a liability when he has an off-day.

For Friday night only, I hope it is the latter!

If he is consistent for the remainder of the season, he should be a shoe-in to the England team, no worries.

bird is a second rower mate. thats where he has always played 99% of his rugby and is his best position. bird played at 6 because of injuries at the sharks and in the nsw squad. i think he played 6 for oz once when lockyer was injured. i think JT was injuried too so the halves where prince and bird(i could be wrong). in the origin bird had one good game at 6 and 2 shockers. when the halves are fit he will play in the backrow for the dragons too.

back on topic i dont think hock does more damage than the others mentioned. a previous poster said hock is the best attacking british second rower? that surley has to be wilkin. i would love to see hock do the tactical kicking for wigan or play at 6 for a few games or even in the centres like other backrowers do for other clubs.

as wigan fans i understand why your gonna choose hock over others. espically with your run of form. personally im not a fan(you may have picked that up lol) but each to their own

If you think Wilkin is the best British SR then I'm afraid this debate is over

why when he is an out and out second row and we don't need him to start tactical kicking and play in the centres we have enough cover for that.

glad you said that because i actually thought i had was seeing things.

Hocks not a playmaker type like Wilkin/Sinfield/O'Loughlin etc so he's never going to be asked to be doing tactical kicking or passing.

He's an out and out second row runner and of that type he's easily the best in Engalnd at the minute. The amount of damage he doesn wheather it be a break, half break, try or just taking energy out of the oppositions defence is invaluble.

Is he a better player then Bird or Wilkin? tough to say because he's a totally different type of player but would i swap them for him? not in a million years.

Ali and Solamona are always crocked and Solomonas attitude stinks IMO. Pauleta is a cracking player but give me hock anyday.

as for bird you really are clutching at straws as Nicky kiss has already mentioned he is a 6 add to that he has done nowt so far over here, looks about 2 stone over weight.

i also said "attacking" 2nd row. ellis is a monster in defence, but not so much in attack.

givin any of the above there i would not swap him for any of them


and finally WILKIN???????????????

dont make me laugh. puts a few kicks in and hightackles the smallest blokes on the park. a genuine cheapshot mearchant. dont get me wrong Hock likes the ruff stuff, however he does it to the big blokes too.

i would have Hock then maybe JJB before that lot

wilkin is as fast as hock if not faster, has a better long and short passing game and a better long and short kicking game!! their defence is about the same.

how can hock be a better attacking second rower than wilkin? is hock a better battering ram and tackle braker? then i would say yes.

but if we are talking a true attacking back rower its not like hock's skills arnt as good as wilkin's the facts are hock simply doesnt have the skill set wilkin does. fact

You can't compare Hock and Wilkin mate............it's pointless.

It's like comparing Tim Smith and Rob Burrow, they're games are totally different.

Compare Wilkin and O'Loughlin if you want.