At least you've learned your lesson from yesterday.

Dummy-spitting about questionable terminology (questionable in the minds of you and about two others!) is much safer ground than dummy-spitting over scurrilous accusations.

Stick to whingeing about words, bud. Much less likely to drop you in the sh**.

Out of interest say if MAtty Smith was going to Oz instead of Sam, and we moved Sam into the halves and bought in Bowen and the term 'MArquee signing@ was used what would your opinion be?

He isn't a marquee signing end of. His knees are supposed to be shot. The Cowboys didn't offer him a new contract because they believed he couldn't manage another year from his performances on the field and in training. Had it been a few years ago then yes he may of been a marquee signing. As it is, he is no more than a big name player with huge doubts over his fitness.

Nothus has summed up the situation and feelings nicely on the VT for me.

From what I can gather nobody is really doubting that Mathew Bowen is a great player - Im sure that even a number of NRL teams would of been happy to sign him for one year - however the situation at Wigan is different when you look at the players we have lost or are leaving, the players we are being linked with and the fact that we are losing a once in a generation player in Sam Tomkins.

But this is more than about Sam Tomkins....lets not forget that we have also lost a world class back rower in Hock and one of the best wingers in Superleague in Richards.

We have done well this season when you consider that we lost players like Jeff Lima, Brett Finch and Gareth Hock and we have unearthed some diamonds too in Scott Taylor, Matty Smith, Blake Green and Ben Flower.

However there are still question marks about the overall standard of players coming in next season - not just Bowen but also Pettybourne, Sarginson and Clubb.

Time will tell if we get it right but the quality and quantity of our emerging younger players should keep people on their toe's.

Maybe a 3rd thread should have been opened titled "Look who you could have signed"
Trouble is, there isn't much to choose from

that was spin because a deal with Wigan had already been put in place, and they wanted fans and other clubs to think he was finishing.. Do you understand the concept of "Spin"?

1. HE HAS BEEN THERE BEST PLAYER THIS SEASON BY FAR

2. jonathan thurston, james tamou, matt scott have just had massive wage bumps when considered they was the best in the world in their position.

3. robert lui and brent tate have just signed new improved deals in robert lui case quite significantly.

3. they desperately need to sign a hooker it has been effecting them all season.

4. they have just signed lachlan coote to replace matty bowen anybody can clearly see that isn't an improvement.

like i said its a massive spin from the club and matty bowen wants to go back coaching so he wont speak out against it.

So The Tomkins deal was only finalised last week yet Wigan had already put the deal in place with Matty Bowen?

What would of happened if the Tomkins deal hadn't come off?

The club even told one supporter that the first contact they had with NZW was 10 days ago.

Seems like there may be a lot of spin coming out of our club as well!!

You better ask the posters who know all the answers.. I'm just a happy clapper

Obviously he should not have let Sam Tomkins go. I know that is an unfashionable suggestion and one you have dismissed from your thoughts as not remotely sensible or possible but it is simply the truth of the matter. The fact the best out there is Bowen only adds to the reasoning to do so. Happy now?



Consider yourself enlightened. Carry on clapping.

I do but I don't think you do, except when you practice it yourself as above and in your previous post



Spin is not telling outright lies. Parr would have been lying if when he said what he did for your position to be correct and you are far too ready to effectively label Parr as not only as manipulative and as cynical as any political spin doctor but as basically a liar.

This happens a lot. Someone posts a link to some club officials comments that doesn't fit with someone else view of the world and its suddenly "spin" (when half the time they are really being accused of outright lies). It's the ultimate cop out argument right up there with "the coach is always right".

I dont have twitter but not 1 wigan fan or the wigan warriors twitter account has welcomed him online.

DAMN!!! So we all have to check with you as to whether something is "the truth"... Thanks for clearing that up.

Lenagan out!

Never really gone on there in the past as I found it too insular.

However got intrigued so!

Returned today to find more threads slagging IL off in one day than I think I've ever started in 8 years of posting !
I thought certain posters were obsessed with pushing their agendas but this is more than that, it seems almost bordering on personal dislike or vendetta (probably struggling to find the right word here but I think you'll grit through gist).
There's not 1 opportunity missed to get a dig in.
Weird

It's always the same tone, ring-led by the same small group of malcontents.

I stopped bothering with it years ago, though I occasionally go over there to have a giggle.

I'm going to put something out there that I do not think has been said. Matty Bowen on this years form is a better player than Sam Tomkins currently is.

I personally think our team will improve on this year in that position.

Bowen is the complete fully developed fullback, his game is rounded in all aspects, he offers everything that Tomkins does, but is safer and positionally better.

Tomkins is going to the NRL in the hope of reaching his undoubtedly huge potential, as he was never going to reach that in Super League.

Obviously the issue is that ones stock is on the rise in Tomkins and one is on the decline due to where they are in their respective careers, but personally I believe next year we will be stronger in the full back position than we have been.

Controversial!

I see where your coming from but haven't seen enough of Bowen to comment. I believe he's pretty good under the high ball and in defence which are two areas people question in regards to Tomkins fullback play.

We'll see how he goes. If they manage him well and give him rests like Tomkins has had this year he shouldn't be too much of a drop in quality. It certainly doesn't worry me like going from Carmont to Thornley did for example.

Second in the DallyM last year I believe. Scored 130 tries in 270 games. Kicked a few goals. Played for Qld and scored winning Origin tries. Played for Australia and the All Stars. Why on Earth would we be interested in signing him?



I think it's a top buy and the likes of Hampshire and Tierney will learn plenty from him and will still get their chance against the lesser teams in the league. Whilst I wish we weren't losing Sam, I think we've done pretty well out of the deal personally.

How do we fit all these players under the Communist Cap as you like to call it?

Great signing, don't think you lose anything at all. It's just a stop gap until Hampshire matures into the roll. I though it was our job (Wire) to sign ageing aussies though?

Cheers,

I think we may be in agreement here. I would like to think that Sam Tomkins love for Wigan has no bounds, that he would dedicate his career to the club, but sadly that is not the case.

I would also like to think that those running the club would make a contract stick and keep Sam for another three years. We don't really know if Sam asked to go or if the club decided to cash in. Either way the reality is he's gone. This thread is about Sam's replacement who you seem to have (reasonable) doubts about.

Many of the posters seem a bit mystified about why calling him "marquee" or not is such an issue. FWIW I think it's a stupid term and was obviously mis-used to placate those/all of us disappointed to lose Sam.

It seems to be agreed that Bowen is a genuine talent. So whilst Wigan may have blundered in letting Sam go (or perhaps they had little choice) they have actually done well to get an excellent replacement who, as speculated above may actually, for one season, be better than Sam.

Given the situation I'm prepared to give IL the benefit of the doubt, especially considering Wigan's continued success on the field.

I can't be bothered reading through 16 pages, but here are my thoughts.
Having watched him on Premier Sports Bowen has been very very good in his games since his op earlier this season. If Wane uses him properly (and I think he will) then he could be good acquisition. It should also Tierney / Burgess / Hampshire further time to develop.