Its no wonder we don't see any attacking rugby with stats like the above.

I do think a part of it though is the tactics / style of play.
- We do one up rugby which makes it easy for the defence
- We run straight at the A and B defenders which makes it easy for the defence
- We do not seem to catch the ball at pace on the gain line. Always stood still / way behind the gain line

Look how effective Smithies looked last night hitting those lines at second row, off a half, at pace, in a gap rather than at a defensive wall.

Running in pairs, at pace, away from the A and B defenders isn't too hard to implement.

Why couldn't we have done that last night? Regardless of how is comin back, we still had a fullback, 2 wingers and 2 centres playing...

Wasn't Isa our top meters maker?

What you are saying is true if one of the following is correct:
1 - Because of the personell in the backs - Lam adjusted the tactics and told the backs not to take the ball up (Not sure that is true)
2 - The personell in the backs decided to not take the ball up - When we get the players above back they will (Not sure that is true)
3 - The personell in the backs took the ball up but when the players return it will be more effective (Probably)

We spend so long battling to get our of our own 20/30m at times, it's impossible to attack from those areas (unless you're stupid). We just get stuck in the cycle of 5 drives and a kick which is what we did most of last night. Or just waiting for the opposition to make a mistake or get a penalty. When you come up against very disciplined sides you just won't get those and we'll just be stuck in our own half the whole game (see Leeds CC game last year).

We made only 5 offloads all game. 1 led to a try. That either means we're playing very conservative rugby and under instruction not to offload (why, against a side with loads of injuries?) or we're consistently losing the collision and players can't offload.

I think that the ‘powers that be’ know we are just one dominant front rower off being a side capable of winning trophies, hence the signing of George Burgess which was, arguably, the final piece in the jigsaw. That didn’t come off, as we all know. We were desperately unlucky with GB but, for the time being, we carry on as we are doing, allowing the young lads to develop. I held off posting at the beginning of the season that youngsters like Smithies, Havard, Partington, Byrne and Shorrocks need to step up to the table and start to show us what they are capable of. I’m glad I did because I feel that they’re now coming into their own. They’re not the finished article by any means but most of the sides in the competition would gladly take two or three of them off our hands given the opportunity. IL & Co will know the score and I would be very surprised if a number of props hadn’t been scrutinised with a view to one of them coming to Wigan to bolster the pack. Financial constraints due to covid may mean that we have to be patient but it will happen.

Singleton 9 carries for 66m average of 7m, 32 tackles

Clubb 3 carries for 35m average of 12m, 12 tackles

Bullock 3 carries 30m average 10m, 14 tackles

Partington 11 carries 60m average 6m, 34 tackles

Byrne 12 caries 66m average of 6, 21 tackles

Havard 5 for 32m average of 6 25 tackles

Shorrocks 8 for 38 avg 5, 31 tackles.

I’m confused why Bullock is being used so sparingly. It’s been a very quiet start to the season for young Havard in comparison to last season. A bit of second season syndrome maybe but I do think we should be starting him and giving him more game time as he’s clearly got the engine for it.

From the outside looking in it seems like your forwards place so much emphasis on their line speed because they know in 'exit sets' they wont have to do anything. Last night when we were clearing our line you had Byrne and Shorrocks in particular flying off the line and putting us under a lot of pressure which meant you were hardly having to clear your own line anyway.

Bullock has to be carrying an injury or something. I think he was only on for about 7 minutes last night.

And still managed to match Clubb's stats

You really have to wonder what some players are doing, or not doing, to be overlooked.

I understand we cancelled Clark’s move to Toulouse and Kilner might be a bit miffed not to have had a game by now, not that he should be playing every week, but maybe 1 in 5 against select opponents given the contributions of some wouldn’t be too much of a challenge.

My impression of your props is that they are excellent without the ball, pretty ineffective with it. Some of their tackling is fierce and stopped our boys dead in their tracks. But when they were carrying it they rarely punched any holes and we were able to limit yardage quite easily.

That is exactly it.

Defensively we are obviously very good, but we don't make enough yards to be able to build pressure in a game or to get truly on top which is probably why we never blow sides out the water like Saints and other sides do.

It’s like Groundhog Day watching us at the minute. You know we’ll defend our socks off and look clunky in attack and more often than not we’ll get the job done.

A lot of that comes down to the lack of ground we make in the middle from an attacking POV. It is a worry because I’m not sure we can spend a full season putting this much energy in to every game and having to rely on the young forwards to see us through.

That’s my concern also. Although it’s promising to be winning games and not really making much impact in the pack, we can’t exert this much energy week in week out. We’re going to get found out eventually and Hull very nearly did that last night. I thought they just lacked some killer instinct where as we took our chances (in the main). If it weren’t for a Connor brain fart it had a 1 point winning DG either way written all over it

Wonder who’ll come in for Clubb next week ?

Clark or Kilner ?

Tommy (Smith to bench) ?

Gildart/Manfredi? (with Bibby to Centre, Faz to back row Smithies to bench?

At risk of him becoming like Escare and Hankinson (weird fan favourites who never play) I’d like Clark to have a go and say go get us 100m on 10/11 carries and the bench spot is yours for a month.

I think Tommy will be ok. I sense he’s been ‘not risked’ for a couple of weeks more than anything and with a couple of aims in mind (on top of not risking him). One has been to give Harry Smith a shot and two has been to keep a little back from Hull. He’ll have had an issue but at another time I think they may have pushed him through the games.

I think we’ll just see Leuluai for Clubb tbh with Harry Smith dropping to the bench and one of Havard or Bullock stepping up to start.

I read somewhere he was out 3/4 weeks Cas game. Think we could do with him against Hull.

I saw reports saying a couple of weeks. I’m probably wrong but he was touch and go for last week and then missed that and this week and I just thought it all seemed a bit tactical. We also played exceptionally conservatively on Thursday and it all just felt a bit like we’ve been playing a few cards close to our chest ready for next week. I’m not saying it’ll be radically different but I think Tommy may play and we’ll move the ball more.

I cannot see Clarke being like Escare and Hankinson. We all know his limitations. The issue is that I just cannot see how he could be worse than Clubb. Personally I would have thought Kilner was next in line. Interestingly enough Shorrocks and Byrne are the ones who are impressing me most. Smithies looks stronger further out but does not have the attacking ability of Farrell so I could see him moving back to the bench when the backs are back. On another note does anyone know how Kai Pierce Paul is now?

Disappointed that the OP didn't call this thread the Proplem

Same again.

Totally bullied by a bigger more experienced pack.

Saw the forecast and I expected a repeat of the Leeds semi from last year.

It’s a huge issue that needs resolving if we expect to challenge for trophies on all fronts.

It’s ok signing marquee halves but until we provide them with a platform to play it’s fairly pointless.

Don’t worry Jon if we get Williams next season we will be complete as a team

And Lam put Manfredi on the bench rather than Clark

WTF

Yep - weather forecast came in and we all knew what what would happen.

Nope, everyone apart from Lam knew what would happen.

I'm probably wrong, but how long was it before we saw Bullock? Getting bullied and keeping the biggest guy we've got on the bench.