but we owe it to our owner

And? The company and its owner are separate legal entities. As I said right at the start before armchair accountants started calling me out. Financial institutions don’t care who it’s owed to. Same goes for the auditors and their audit statement. Don’t believe me, download the Wigan credit file

If we want to wipe that debt tomorrow then we can. Why? Because it's owed to our owner. "In laymans terms" the bank won't be calling it in.

Now how about the losses Saints are making and their debts?

so we owe our owner money?....who doesnt? He clears all losses and adds it to the debt owed, so no one apart from him can call in anything, as he is the major shareholder in the company that owns us, prove me wrong, tell me what bank can call in our debt?

Why bother watching the games next year!

Although WW69 is a well known troll the stuff about the auditors is right.



This sort of thing can play havoc with your credit ratings, although the basics of the company's financial position mean it's probably struggling on that front anyway.

Nobody will lend someone 5m in debt money that's obvious.

When that money is owed to the owner though it can very quickly become a debt of zero. Nobody will come knocking on the door demanding their money because we don't owe anybody any money.

We lose money like all sport clubs do, but I'd rather be in our position where the owner fills the gaps than having 5mill of creditors.

Obviously banks would steer clear but credit ratings are also important to suppliers and credit insurers who may pull their facilities which just compounds the cash crunch.

Every single supplier or anybody else who charges us a fee gets their money on time.

We are basically chipping away at our savings account to go on holidays and buy luxuries rather than using credit cards.

Losses are a big worry of course they are, but knowing that we have zero debt (effectively) is a big plus.

What are you on about? I made a statement about 10 pages ago stating that banks wouldn’t touch you for finance and all of a sudden I’ve got loads of armchair accountants who haven’t got a clue what they are talking about calling me out lol

As I said. Banks don’t care if the money is owed to your owner. You are still insolvent and that’s all the banks care about but carry on denying it all you want. It’s a fact

And when a bank is interested in buying us, that would be relevant. However, anyone buying a sports club would not be using bank loans to fund it so what's your point exactly and how does this impact on someone buying the club?

im replying to you 2 pages ago you clown as you know......

Which of course, they will have for a transditional period following the building of their own stadium, but Wigan have debts and financial problems without having any ownership or running of their own stadium.

Does not seem to bother St Helens with the way they still managed to sign to class players each season like they have done for next season.

Wigan, on the other hand???

Difference is Saints have 7 Directors ranging from companies, antique dealers and property developers.

I've just had a look at the financials of Wigan and Saints since they moved into their new stadium in 2012.

Saints operating losses in that time are £8.352 million. Wigans in that same period are £3.751 million.

To be fair to Saints £3.56 million of those losses occurred in the first two seasons at Langtree when they had to do the refit of the cladding.

How much of Saints' losses relate to depreciation? They have in recent years tended towards breaking even at EBITDA level.

I agree Jukes if fans would turn up in numbers we would soon bounce back but if they moan and bitch and talk themselves into not going and spending money just because it isnt good enough in their eyes then it could be a long road back.
even though stats and trophies over the years are far better than other clubs.

So let me get this straight - the reason the club is underperforming at the moment for some is because of the fans and not:

- Those who had the power to get the club a replacement for Hastings when it's been common knowledge for about a year he was leaving and still haven't?
- Those who had the power to get a suitable replacement for Gildart and are giving us Thornley?
- Those who had the power to terminate Lam's contract and didn't?
- Those who had the power on recruitment and retention and have given us the current squad?
- Those who had the power to not have the disastrous policy or re-signing ex-players - none of whom were better the second time round, and most considerably worse?

But it's some the fans fault for not spending enough money when we spend up to the cap anyway?

How do we know we're under performing without Hastings and Gildart and with the new squad? The season hasn't started yet!!!

The thread is mainly about the apparent financials of the club, which of course would improve if those that sit at home and criticise actually bothered to turn up.

You can't out £0 into the club and then complain when the club doesn't make any money.

As is no doubt obvious to everyone else (bar one or two others), those were examples of the club knowing for some time that two key players were leaving and at the moment we seem to have Thornley as the only replacement. One of the key players / positions at the club haven't been replaced and we're now hoping for a bit of luck to find someone anywhere near close in terms of talent.

Obviously the fans fault.

In terms of underperforming, I assume the last three year haven't passed you by?

The point being if you make numerous bad decisions and the team is underperforming, you don't give some people the reason to part with their cash when there's a cost of living crisis going on for a lot of people.

If 5000 more people turned up to every game and the same decisions were made, we'd be in exactly the same position because we're in a salary capped sport.

Replacing Gildart with Thornley is fine IMO. Gildart has hardly played for two years and as things stand we have Hardaker, Bibby, Thornley and Halsall going for two spots.

The fact we’re still scrambling for a Hastings replacement is pretty unforgivable IMO. He is a big loss and our only real loss for next season as things stand. The other players leaving have been injured more often than not or they haven’t been selected, so I’m confident the squad is automatically quite a bit stronger but it’s hugely let down by us not sorting out a top quality replacement for Hastings.

It's a good point, but I think if goes deeper than that too.

15 years ago or so, I could watch a Wigan Vs Saints game that had Radders, Faz, Newton, Smith, Lam Vs KFC, Long, Scully, Lyon etc. The standard is dog turd these days, but yet we keep being asked to dip our hands in our pockets.

I'm slick of A - being taken for some kinda cash cow that the club, sport take for granted and, B - forced to happy clap about how great British RL is. People won't like it, heck i wouldn't either, but it's time to get rid of the cap - even if that means Wire win the league.