Its all well and good saying that but times have changed, the days of it being a rugby league town are long gone as most people dont do what I used to do before I had a family,i.e football Saturday,sunday rugby most can't do that now and sadly football seems to be sport ruling the roost.

I certainly dont buy the "blame wane" syndrome doing the rounds, he was told to win trophies,he did on a regular basis, tough economic times as well as the march of football surely have taken their toll of attendances.

As suspected the Australian folly was just that a folly its all well and good trying to take but when the risk comes at perhaps alienating your home fanbase surely its been proven the risk far outweighs the rewards hope lessons have been learned.

That makes for depressing reading.

My wife and I where season ticket holders and then started a family so now we choose to spend our money on holidays/dance lessons/gymnastic lessons/music lessons etc... for our daughter so we cannot afford to attend games anymore as it would mean missing out on other things.

Luckily we are not in the IFL is a tight a**e bridage

It doesn't make great reading. We as supporters need to act now before we become the next Bradford Bulls.

There's still time!

What can we do as supporters?

For those that can, buy a season ticket again. Looks like we will have an exciting team next season, surely this will see an increase in attendances.

For those that can't commit to a season ticket (myself included due to business commitments) - get to as many home games as possibly can.

Encourage family members/friends to attend again.

Visit the fanzone prematch (and possibly postmatch) instead of the South Stand Bar. Purchase food and drinks in the arena rather than inside the DW.

Visit the club shop at the arena, purchase merchandise.

Purchase a golden gamble ticket (if you don't already).

Sign up to Wigan Lotto (if you don't already).

I'm not saying everybody should do everything on this list but if nobody does anything then it won't be long before we have no club.


And god only help us if the sport doesn't get a good SKY deal next time.

The extra fans would only stem the cash burn and if I'm honest I'd be amazed if the club could actually do that in one season.
I've been worried for years about the apparent lack of growth in younger supporters and although the new free scheme next year for under 8's is great we desperately need further initiatives across all ages.
I'm a ST holder but if I had to go to the north stand to get my ticket for the south stand if I was a potential occasional paying supporter personally I wouldn't be arrised in doing that.

We should be eternally grateful for IL because without him God knows where we would be. He ain't perfect but then again who is? Even the guy from Nazareth had his flaws.

And before any of that
Stop talking the club down at every opportunity
Stop/reduce looking to find negatives and blow them into massive negatives in even the tinest of issues
Stop/reduce running down our game at every opportunity
Stop running down our referees constantly
Stop moaning about ticket prices when they are exceptionally good value (the post the other week about season tickets being too expensive was one of the most ridiculous posts I've ever seen).
Stop accusing chairman of pocketing money with no evidence just because you want a new mythical chairman who will pump millions of pounds of money from God knows where because you want short term immediate fixes.

Start promoting our players, were losing George William's in 6/7 weeks and I don't think I've seen 10% of positive compared to the 90% criticism he gets whilst EVERY time a coach/player from another club is interviewed they was lyrical about him. Sam Burgess was praising him a couple of weeks ago on the Marty John's Podcsst.

Start telling everyone about the game, encourage people to attend

Start posting More when we win and less when we lose, rather than the other way round! There was a point (think it was last year) where we'd won 3/4 games in a row and it was like a morgue! One loss and there was 20 x times the traffic!

If we carry on like we have over the last 3/4 years doing more of the first lot and none of the 2nd lot people wont turn up and will tune out.
And before anyone says anything, Yes, it really does influence other peoples way of thinking.
Keep telling people that somethings rubbish, not good enough, players are crap, coach is crap blah blah and people will listen and stop coming.

Because if we don't the club will need more money from less people and that wont happen or the club really will have to cut their cloth etc.

So basically just sit there and applaud things that don't deserve it? Great idea!

I'll be at more games next season as they've invested in quality players, but that's not always been the case. When was the last true big name we signed prior to Burgess or Hastings? Hoffman in 2012? Trent perhaps? I'm sure 2012 saw an upturn in attendance after we signed the 3 players from the Storm. Wigan have always had quality home grown talent & star names - big names are just as much a part of our DNA & history as what our successful academy is imo. Don't expect everyone to be happy when that stops.

Let's look at the on the field product - we've gone from watching guys like Renouf, Lam and Dallas to Sammut, Sarginson and Marshall. No disrespect to Sarge, as I like the guy, but I know who I'd rather pay to see. Also in regards to performance, I do buy into the blame Wane theory. The success he brought in was great, but my god a massive proportion of the season wasn't fun. We'd turn up one week then watch Cas put 40 on us the week after. How many times have fans come home disheartened after another lackluster performance?

Let's look at price, - i'm now paying more to watch Wigan Vs Saints than I was 20 years ago, but back then it was Long Vs Lam, Rads Vs Wellens, Faz Vs Scully, Newton vs KFC etc. Please don't sit there and tell me we are even close to that. Paying more for a lesser product - where else does that happen?

Let's look at gate revenues - we used to have games Vs Bradford compared to next season Vs Toronto. What's that crowd going to look like? Add in Hudsnand Catalans too. How much do we lose during those fixtures? What about the impact of Thursday night games? How much does that shave off an attendance? Why would I cheer about those things, or should I ignore it and gloss over it? Should I big those games up to my friends 'come and watch us play Toronto - there'll be a great atmosphere'.

Let's looks at refs - imo we're absolutely at the bottom of the barrel with PR hungry guys like Hicks ruining games on a weekly basis. It was bad 15 years ago and the clubs kept their own counsel and went via the proper channels - how did that work out? The biggest tool of the lot of them, Ganson, got the top job. Imagine if in 15 years Hicks is the top guy! That's why I'm 100% behind McManus in what he's done - it quite simply isn't right how that final was officiated.

Let's talk about Sky - the product is amateurish both in production and talent. Most people won't watch it, but the RU coverage on BT is second to none imo. Great production at the matches and a weekly TV show that's entertaining and insightful. They've got a partnership that works for both of them. People who want to watch RU will buy BT and in turn they get appreciated by them via quality content.

I'm majorly excited to see Wigan next year, but that's because they've rectified some is the issues/gripes many people had. I'm not however going to sit here and say we're currently in some kind of golden age of RL in the UK.

On the subject of the Sly sports cash - what's happened to the concept of taking the league as a whole away from the RFL when it comes to the overall finances/sponsorship/telly/whatever? I thought IL was one of the leaders on that with Hetherington et al the nay sayers, but well, meh. Much as i consider Sly to be more of a problem than an overall solution, the Premier League wendyball model hasn't done them any harm has it?
Seems to have gone all a bit quiet... ??

if the crowds dont come and the sky money doesnt improve, there is only 1 solution.
cut the wages to the players
all other businesses work this work.
for sport to survive fans have to accept that the owners should not be expected to lose money, but that clubs have to break even. football hasnt learnt this yet (isnt the average EFL wage bill > 100% of income ???) and if RL doesnt learn it, clubs will go under when people like IL and McManus get bored of being sugar daddies.

McManus isn't the sugardaddy. They have a silent backer that puts up most the money.

Jukesays I agree with a lot of what you say, we should make more of an effort as fans to talk up the club and look for the positives.

However, that needs to come from the top too (the club). For me personally - and many others - they have totally neglected and took for granted the fanbase and are now seeing the returns of that. I applaud them for investing in the squad, and for raising the age of free entry for kids and investing in a money-making facility.

But they have totally failed to ENGAGE with fans in a positive meaningful way for the last 4-5 years. It's a head-scratcher because in the early years of IL's tenure it was an area where they succeeded really well. I hope the financial headaches act as a wake up call for the future.

Quite simply, we have lost 5,000 fans on average in 6 years.

5,000 x £20 x 14 home games = £1.4m a season.

Mike coleman is the money behind saints, a hedge fund manager based in singapore and geneva although he is st.helens born and bred. Saints are basically owned by one of his companys called crowther holdings who are registered in the caymen islands, i believe he owns between 65 snd 85% of the shares and has pumped around 20 million in since the move to the new stadium.

You can't have a silent backer as all investors have to pass the test to see if you are basically fit and proper

Silent as he wants no board position. He isn't unknown...heard his name mentioned a couple of times...Saddened might enlighten us. He dug deep for Naq in his last investment. That was the last time I heard him mentioned.

Not a perfect excuse I know But

I would guess engaging with the fans became a bit of a drag the way the fans forums went, nothing but chances for over zealous individuals who see themselves as no1 fans whi know better than the people in charge whether that be the management, the coaches and even the players at times.
At the same time there was the constant criticism on facebook/forums like this etc of leneghan and Wayne for a whole host of ridiculous reasons (yes there were issues in there at timesbuy they were blown up to 10x times what they were).
There seemed to be a whole group of people who for whatever reason for around 5 years seemed to WANT leneghan and Wane to fail and to be honest only on the last 5/6 weeks has thought subsided some what.
IMO that's a big part of a lot of the malaise around the club and coupled with a lot of the other things I pointed out its contributed tona lack of enthusiasm around the place.
DESPITE 3 GF finals a world club challenge and cc final appearances.

The club have no doubt made a lot of mistakes in that period but to answer the other poster who commented on my post I would argue that 80% of the things the club have done is right and if 20% was wrong that's not too bad.

BUT I'd guess that 80% of posts/comments etc. Are negative with 20% positive.

I'd just ask people to try and be fair in both criticism and praise and imo that just doesn't seem to happen not only with regards to Wigan, its management, coaches and players but the game in general (and to an extent life in general).

Mike coleman is a director of saints

Let’s be honest. Though far from ideal as long as Leneghan is prepared to foot the bill we’ll be fine.

I’m no expert but I’d surmise that the majority of sporting clubs are supported by individuals or a consortium of financial backers, without these people a lot of clubs would fold.

So basically just sit there and applaud things that don't deserve it? Great idea!"
This is a typical response.
I NEVER EVER EVER SAID THAT

I said stop doing it st every opportunity
I said reduce the criticisms
I said try and give balanced views and give praise where it's due in fair & equal measures rather than what currently happens which is 5 good performances or good things at the club and nothing or little said.
1 x bad performance and it's like a lynch mob with pitch forks and 10 x times the amount of things said.

I'll leave it at this
I have a saying that people get what people deserve.

And if "WE" continue to treat our club as we currently are without giving the club support when we can, the backing it deserves when in trouble times etc and all of us doing what we can to give a balanced view the we will get what we deserve.
Wont matter to me, I watched them in the 70s and early 80s when we were gash, I watched the glory years (when crowds weren't what a lot of people think they were and prices were pro rata similar) and I watched us terrible again on 97 and 2005/6 and from 2007 when leneghan took over the club have given me as much joy every year with minimal downs and lots of ups.

I wasnt Lams biggest fan early season, but I didn't want his head on a platter and go screaming for change, I'm enjoying the rugby now and pleasantly happy with where we are now but I'm not carried away as were not as good as we need to be.so I wont be doing a Rubber Duckie and going overboard.

But I can't wait for the next 6 weeks whatever happens!
Enjoy people !

Well that will shut rubber duckie up that means he will have had to pass the fit and proper test just like lenagan and Moran

Be interesting to see how "the powerhouse clubs" finances would look without simon morans involvement, seeing as there crowds and turnover are way behind the big three of leeds , wigan and saints........perhaps rubbber duckie can enlighten us

Have a look on companies House if you want.

Creating revenue 7 days a week from your own stadium certainly helps matters.

Wires turnover is far greater than Wigan's Wigan lost 1 3 million last year wire turned in a profit of 224k companies House has all the details

On a similar turnover to the wire saints lost 430k

The last thing I’d think ‘Rugby League’ fans would want to do is to start playing One-upmanship against other clubs fans when it comes to teams making losses. If big clubs like Wigan and Saints are making losses like these then the whole game should be worried.

I’d love to see all clubs in rude health but sadly the games not in that shape. It’s being propped up by Sky money, which could be pulled in a couple of years and also by individuals willing to fund these losses. I suppose ultimately that’s sport in general but that cloud of the next tv deal looms over us and people don’t have confidence in the RFL.

Wigan and saints obviously overspending

This, unfortunately.

It's difficult to quantify how much damage a certain clique of negative fans have done to the club, but it can't have had no impact at all.

The problem these days is that any malcontent - and we seem to have more than most - isn't just a terrace bore any more. Now he can speak to the nation through the internet, and while lots of people will ignore these guys, others come to regard them as gurus ... as we saw on the other site (where some posters were so instinctively hostile to IL's regime that it was difficult to believe they weren't some kind of 5th column, and yet they attracted a herd of sheep-like yes men).

My main concern over the years has been that we know IL reads this forum. Given that he's pumped his own cash into the club and led us on multiple trophy-winning campaigns, how must he feel to see his name dragged constantly through the mud? There've been times when I'm amazed he's lasted this long.

I'll freely admit that I lost heart earlier this season. I feared relegation and felt that if we dropped, that would be it. That there'd be no way back and we'd go the same way as Bradford etc. I made posts on here - mainly calling for Lam to be removed and for a better recruitment policy - and I now regret them, because yet again IL has led us towards sun-lit uplands.

I'm not saying the guy's perfect, but compared to the previous administration, when a local journo told me you could ring the club at any time of the week and no one would even answer the phone - there wouldn't even be an answering machine! - it's clear to see that we could be in much, much worse hands.

Get upset if things go wrong, by all means. But keep it in perspective.