At a fans forum 3/4 years ago Lenagan stated that because of the way the cash is divided up that the Challenge Cup was the more financially rewarding competition.

Personally I think the 2 x 12 and 3 x 8 system is ridiculous and will make the game a laughing stock.

SL should be 12 or 14 teams with a a view to expanding to 16 at a future date, raising the potential income stream from matchday revenues. Can't say I'm fussed whether it's P & R or licensing. If we do go for licensing though we have to do it properly.

The main funding however has to come from TV rights and sponsorship. Sky have got RL on the cheap. Barwick (who after all is the expert on these things) needs to negotiate a far better TV deal with Sky (or others) for Super League and raise funding for the Championship clubs by negotiating a separate deal for them, either with Sky or another TV company. Barwick should point out that they need to pay the players a wage that will stop them going down the NRL or RU route or the quality of the product will fall and so will Sky's viewing figures.

Finally we need someone with a bit of commercial accumen (rather than the current buch of muppets) employed by the RFL to start attracting some decent sponsorship, preferably from Blue Chip companies.

Oh, and get rid of Wood as well. He's bloody useless!

Part quote.

"I presume they would change the rules and bring back the far more sensible U21 competition and allow the odd over age player in. Which they should be doing regardless of any of this anyway!'"

I think you will find that it was the lower sl clubs who have little or no academy of their own that voted to get rid of the U21's

IL voted to abolish the U21s along with Leeds. It's a decision he regrets now though.

ill shut up now

"

It was some SL clubs that voted to abolish the under 21's in the first place, why, to save money and resulted in many players being cast adrift.'"

Even if there was that doesn't address the issue of clubs in the same competition working to vastly different budgets.

This isn't the Cup where on a good day with a lot of luck a Championship side paying its players out of a £300K salary cap manages to put one over on one of the lesser SL teams in a one off game. For them to progress they would have to beat sides with full time players consistently. This isn't going to happen.

And as to that sliding scale idea for SL2 this is completely nuts. How on earth does that work? One season you are on £650K and the season after your share is reduced to £400K because you finished a couple of places lower in the competition? You won't know what your income is from one season to the next.

Probably for the best

The statement that could not be understood was in context of the u21's which after being voted on as you say greatly inhibited players options, some were left with nowhere to go.
Others players were shipped out to a multitude of other clubs with little or no say in the matter if they wanted to play.
This scrapping of the u21's and DR was supposed to comply with "being in the best interests of the young players involved and the developement within the game".
How can that be the case when many were left without a game or were at a different club every other week!!!!

The funding from 650k to 400k would be a lot better to adapt to than what it was with the old p&r and is now set at between SL and the Championship.

These proposals were as a result of a full review based on the Watkins report and the input from sporting experts such as Brian Barwick, they are meant to give a whole game solution.

What some SL clubs are doing is the exact opposite based on nothing other than self interest.

The next step will be for the SL to go to ten clubs in a couple of years time when they overspend and run out of money again.
Part of the ten will be Tolouse meaning that in additon to the two that miss out when it goes to twelve there will be three more current SL clubs who will face the drop.

With that in mind some of the current SL clubs need to be aware that what they vote for or go along with today could well come back and bite then in the future.

If you are in the big four or support the big four then everything will be fine just as long as you are immune from any adverse effects which is not an whole game solution.

The biggest threat to our game is not from the NRL or Union it is from within and just as they got the u21's wrong chopping off the roots is wrong.

that will teach me for trying to be intelligent!!!

I think we can both agree it is a stupid system. The idea put forward was the SL clubs would have no where to go for DR deals if there was a big bust up over the the proposals. I was merely saying if that was the case they would simply change the U19 rules. Whatever justification for them in the first place would be conveniently forgotten.



I think it is unworkable. You could never sign a player to longer than years contract and that is a totally unreasonable thing to impose on players.



Whether it is self interest or not that is driving this I am amazed anyone could propose such a convoluted system where teams supposedly in the same competition are funded to such vastly different levels. It is idiotic.

There is only one reason for this and that is there is not enough money to fund it fully. There is only enough cash to fund a certain number of fully professional clubs and the gap to the rest remains as large as ever. Most sides in SL2 won't be on £650K (I'd guess one at most in fact) and even this is still too far off the SL1 sides so as to make no difference. Trying to bridge the gap between a semi-pro set of clubs and a full time set of clubs looks to me as impossible as ever. Them playing in the same competition is a recipe for some blow out scores and a total lack of credibility.



You can predict as much doom or slag off the SL clubs as much as you like. It's not going to alter the fact Wood's and Co have come up with a stupid system.



It's nothing to do with part of being "the big four as far as my objections go. It's looking at the proposed system on it merits and concluding it is bonkers in its own right.

Dave O, what do you propose?
SL can do whatever they wish if they stick together due to voting rights, so it is not in the hands of the RFL or CHampionship clubs as to what structures are implemented
The 12&8's is a fudge but better than we have for all those outside SL regarding pathways to SL

I think this has been flogged to death but we have had a good interchange of viewpoints.

Last thoughts are that it hasn't been given a chance to work whereas we know for a fact that the old p&r and it's replacement licencing failed.

Only twelve month contracts??
The amount of monies to be spent on contracts at Championship level would increase significantly from what they are now and there are longer than 12 monthly contracts being signed now so how can they suddenly go to one year deals with more money available?

Full time squads keep being mentioned over 24 clubs but not all clubs will go full time or even want to go fulltime because many realise that they would not have any chance of going into the higher level of SL it would probably be jus a couple intially or even not the full squad and possibly permantely but the chance to move up or down to find your own level will be restored.

The SL clubs making up the 8 with the better Cahmpionship sides would still have a significant advantage.

If SL clubs want to have more funding then they should try and encourage investers across the sport but.
Who with any real ambitions is going to invest in a Championship club if they have no chance of making progress?

Experts have looked for a whole game solution for months and i
t's bonkers to us laymen!!
Well it's better than the Mcmanus report that says Saints have moved from Knowlsley Road and the crowds are down so we want the money that was going to given to help the whole game to come to us now to make up the shortfall or else.
Whatever the powers that be decide lets hope it does fix it.

All the best Dave and come on Wigan in the world club challenge.

My proposal would be they replace the buffoons in the RFL who totally failed to police the licensing system with people who can and stick with it. Not use their own failure to administer it as the excuse to scrap it which is what they are doing.

If they really want the 24 team league then they need to set themselves a target of generating enough revenue to support it properly and expand when they have it in place. Not divide a very small cake up the way they are proposing. It's a competition that is bigger than the NRL!

If the RFL had come to the table brandishing a large new TV deal and said "This is how we propose to organise the competition using all this new money" I would not have a problem with them suggesting new formats. The trouble is confronted with a lack of money in the game the solution is instead an odd league format and seemingly nothing more than a hope this will bring money into the game. It's fiddling while Rome burns and doesn't address the fundamental issue which is one IL has mentioned, their total failure to market the game properly. Some very well paid people have totally failed to deliver on that score.

Will not disagree with the people but what do you propose for the teams with ambition outside SL who have nothing tangible to market who are currently living a slow death, the teams as big as the wakeys Cas HKR Widnes Salford of SL but are not in the right place currently?

They do the same as other clubs originally outside SL have done, basically getting their act together. Widnes, Huddersfield, Hull, Hull KR, Salford and Wakefield were all outside the original SL, but managed to make the transition (with varying degrees of success), whether via P&R or Licensing. Clubs' fortunes have always risen and fallen over the years, irrespective of whatever system is in place.

As far as concrete proposals go, I'd keep a form of licensing, but without overcomplicating it as the RFL have done, and administered properly and objectively...something more akin to the old "Framing the Future" concept.

I'd keep the SC, but return it to the original 50% of income concept, I'd make the LLS the premier competition with the playoffs as a secondary trophy similar to the old Premiership Trophy. Within the LLS, I'd have a sliding scale of prize money based on final league position, so that teams always have something to play for, even in mid-table.

As others have pointed out, the current old guard at the RFL need to go (with the possible exception of Barwick, who hasn't really been given a proper chance yet). They have proven their incompetence time after time.

Sponsorship has to be given priority, and a much greater emphasis placed on youth development, with better incentives (and penalties) to encourage this within the clubs - extending the "home-grown player" requirements, for example, and greater SC allowances for the same.

The players union have come out and backed Lenagan and his supporters.

The nets closing on Wood and his mates and not before time.

I don;t think there is nothing to market outside SL. We all know the Aussie 2nd grade competition is sponsored by Toyota. In the UK big companies sponsor lesser leagues in soccer. The fact the championship is not SL should not mean it isn't marketable in its own right but then we are back to the RFL's failure to do so here.

As to teams being as big as several SL outfits if licensing had been applied properly I suspect at least two of those SL teams would have gone by now. Wakey thought they were done for last time.

The reluctance to boot out failing SL clubs seemed to be because the championship sides who applied were assessed as even less capable but given the RFL's recent statements it makes me wonder.

I am not surprised.

I love this referral to all things Australian, we are not Australian btw and comparisons to the biggest draw on Aussie TV are laughable at best
Your proposal says the middle tier goes leaving Wigan to run Pats in some conference league with Thatto Heath etc and as its turkeys voting for Xmas and holding control then I hope your brave new world delivers the pot of gold you hope
Me it says goodbye to RL and I will actively attempt to pull together every excluded fan to hit sky in the pocket and ruin your little shin dig, as its crystal what Lenigan wants and for a couple of hundred grand a year he is prepared to urinate on 118 years of history
If I am wrong I will apologise immediately but the mist is clearing

Its the 118 year history that is killing the game. The game has to change and the running of the game by the RFL is killing it at the top. If SL goes under your guaranteed that it will have a massive negative impact on all the teams in the championship. RFL could not be bothered to find a sponsor for SL for last season and the season before we had no income from the Stobart deal.

To make this out as it all about couple of hundred grand shows how little you know about what is going on. Even the players union agree with IL on some of the issues he has risen. Its typical small club mentality it must all be about money and it leaves none for us attitude. RFL has done little to develop the game and market it. They seem too pre occupied with the salary cap.

SL has to be run by the clubs for the clubs not by Gary Hethrington and RFL hq. They have made a massive blunder with the Stobart deal as well as going down South with so many of the games in the RLWC. Attendances will be embarrassing at a lot of the games. SL games generates the most income into RL its only right they get the most and keep the most and more importantly they run Super League and not the RFL.

SL clubs decide what happens as they control the vote there is nothing the RFL or the Champinship clubs can do about a united SL vote, SL voted for the stupid stobart deal when cash was on offer, and anyone knows that once you devalue your product you are luvved
If SL believe the rest are weak enough they can put the final nail in
I am not about small club mentality, I believe in the laws of nature and also those of darwen refn change. It is patently obvious self protection at all cost seems to be the morals of some and greed others
If we were sat here with 12 clubs charging £25 a ticket and averaging over 10k a game then I could understand but we are not
You pick your team from an early age, unity is our strength and these past few years we have seen the impact of division and exclusion- how many ha be rolled despite franchise protection, how many clubs produce players of national standards??
I hate missed opportunities and un reached potential, RL is guilty but exclusion is not the solution for enhancing marketability

No thats the main issue they do not have a vote. They have had a consultation on the new format but no SL club have a vote. Again it was not SL clubs that voted for the Stobart deal it was the SL board which in effect is the RFL board.

SL clubs do need clubs in the lower leagues just as they need SL teams. But SL needs to change and the clubs need to take controls as Wood has failed. I do not think that SL teams running SL board will kill RL. But Nigel Wood still in charge of RFL will kill RL.

There are 16 teams in the NRL and yet the RFL want to come up with a competition with 24 teams in it run on a shoestring by comparison. You don't think that is a valid comparison or point?

I also mentioned that other sports in the UK manage to secure marketing deals for what isn't the premier competition which means suggestions the RL championship isn't marketable are IMO defeatist. The fact the RFL can't even market SL is a reflection on them, not the sport and that is what IL and now the Players Union are saying.

I'd be interested to know if you think RL in this country could survive as a semi-pro sport. It would mean more teams teams could have a chance of success and gravitate to whatever the top division was called with players wages being a virtual non-issue as they would be at current championship levels (that assumes the games revenue didn't collapse if it reverted back to being a semi-pro game).

Or do you think there is a need for the sport to offer a full time professional elite league which would provide a competition and a career amateur and semi-pro RL players could aspire to?

Think I answered that Dave, I have no issue with elite and that's what could make the Super in RL. Do you class Salford as elite or Cas etc
I also don't like the cap as it stands, and as long as investment is in shares and not loans I think a simple no losses would encourage the entrepreneurial spirit missing at present imo to be at the top table you should have a min cap at £1.8m
The duty is on the clubs to raise their income and profile not just the RFL, who must themselves be answerable to results