Quote ="Owdpopularsider"Just Id thought Id share my correspondence with the club with all boys and girls.. Owdpop..... So IL has a few questions to answer.... 1. Tomkins signed a 5year deal in Nov 2011 that stopped him SPEAKING to ANY club for 3 years. In Sept 2013 he has SIGNED for NZ Warriors. How and why has the happened?? 2. Why have you announced this 4 days before the most important game if the year?? 3. What do you propose to do with the reported £1M the club has made in transfer fees this year?? Wigan Warriors.... the first 2 can be answered from todays press conference; 1. Wigan accepted a world record transfer bid from NZ Warriors and gave the club permission to talk to the player. 2. Both deals were finalised last week, so it was right that the fans were informed before Sams last home game. 3. Remains to be seen Owd Pop....... 1. This then shows the Wigan club to be very weak IMO. To have fans believe back in Nov 2011 that SAMs not going anywhere for at least 3 years and then to let him go after 20 months is taking the proverbials out of the paying fans. 2. So the club has now created the 'Sam is leaving circus' before Fridays game. When all the fans should be concentrating is on backing the side onto victory. I couldn't care less about waving good bye to a player that doesn't honour his commitments to my club. 3. Well it would be nice to know. Wigan Warriors.... The transfer bid could have come at any time and it was up to the Club whether or not to accept it. Due to the figures suggested, the offer was obviously too good to turn down. Read the link below for more details on the deal; www.wiganwarriors.com/WContent.a ... 674&type=1 Thanks, Admin Owdpop... I appreciate the replies I really do. The reasons you give for the sale leaves me extremely worried about my club and the sport in the UK. It seems any bid for our players that seem too good will now be accepted. This hardly leaves fans wanting to buy season tickets for next year does it. Why sell your prize asset when we still have a salary cap in place? It's not as if we can just go around splashing the cash is it?? The reason given by IL for the sale gave the perception that Sam was the main driver and he was desperate to leave, whilst your answer suggest otherwise. It's all rather sad for the fans of our once great club. So IL was the main driving force behind the deal not Sam as he was the first port of call. It remain to be seen what happens with all that lovely money...'" So the deal was initiated by WIGAN not Sam................? Not what IL says in the official statement. "When we realised that Sam was not able to be persuaded to stay a further year at Wigan - having won 2 Challenge Cups, 2 League Leaders Shields and 1 Grand Final, with the chance shortly of that being 2, together with Man-of-Steel and Junior Player of the Year Awards - we have had an open dialogue with him about New Zealand Warriors" So which is it?

Quote ="Owdpopularsider"Just Id thought Id share my correspondence with the club with all boys and girls.. Owdpop..... So IL has a few questions to answer.... 1. Tomkins signed a 5year deal in Nov 2011 that stopped him SPEAKING to ANY club for 3 years. In Sept 2013 he has SIGNED for NZ Warriors. How and why has the happened?? 2. Why have you announced this 4 days before the most important game if the year?? 3. What do you propose to do with the reported £1M the club has made in transfer fees this year?? Wigan Warriors.... the first 2 can be answered from todays press conference; 1. Wigan accepted a world record transfer bid from NZ Warriors and gave the club permission to talk to the player. 2. Both deals were finalised last week, so it was right that the fans were informed before Sams last home game. 3. Remains to be seen Owd Pop....... 1. This then shows the Wigan club to be very weak IMO. To have fans believe back in Nov 2011 that SAMs not going anywhere for at least 3 years and then to let him go after 20 months is taking the proverbials out of the paying fans. 2. So the club has now created the 'Sam is leaving circus' before Fridays game. When all the fans should be concentrating is on backing the side onto victory. I couldn't care less about waving good bye to a player that doesn't honour his commitments to my club. 3. Well it would be nice to know. Wigan Warriors.... The transfer bid could have come at any time and it was up to the Club whether or not to accept it. Due to the figures suggested, the offer was obviously too good to turn down. Read the link below for more details on the deal; www.wiganwarriors.com/WContent.a ... 674&type=1 Thanks, Admin Owdpop... I appreciate the replies I really do. The reasons you give for the sale leaves me extremely worried about my club and the sport in the UK. It seems any bid for our players that seem too good will now be accepted. This hardly leaves fans wanting to buy season tickets for next year does it. Why sell your prize asset when we still have a salary cap in place? It's not as if we can just go around splashing the cash is it?? The reason given by IL for the sale gave the perception that Sam was the main driver and he was desperate to leave, whilst your answer suggest otherwise. It's all rather sad for the fans of our once great club. So IL was the main driving force behind the deal not Sam as he was the first port of call. It remain to be seen what happens with all that lovely money...'" So the deal was initiated by WIGAN not Sam................? Not what IL says in the official statement. "When we realised that Sam was not able to be persuaded to stay a further year at Wigan - having won 2 Challenge Cups, 2 League Leaders Shields and 1 Grand Final, with the chance shortly of that being 2, together with Man-of-Steel and Junior Player of the Year Awards - we have had an open dialogue with him about New Zealand Warriors" So which is it?

MAYBE NZW made a bid and IL told Sam he was going to reject it, Sam then said he would want to go so IL accepted the offer???

Well at least one of these statments is wrong, or at the very least misleading!

I've no idea what you're point is Dave apart from writing another post bellyaching about Lenagan. The club clearly state that IF Tomkins comes back to SL we get first dibs at an agreed remuneration.

Anyone who believes IL suggests a "return is a certainly" is blinded even more by their current agenda than even I thought possible.

The context of my reply was in relation to the point these things aren't enforceable - when they clearly are as shown in our very sport, by our very own assistant coach.

Just note it says Australian, not Australasian, clubs as although NZ Warriors play in the NRL, they are infact not Australian, but as their name would suggest from New Zealand (Sorry for the Geographical loop hole)

Sad loss to SL though that he is going to NRL, but would rather keep him in RL than him going to Yawnion!

Quote ="Owdpopularsider"Just Id thought Id share my correspondence with the club with all boys and girls.. Owdpop..... So IL has a few questions to answer.... 1. Tomkins signed a 5year deal in Nov 2011 that stopped him SPEAKING to ANY club for 3 years. In Sept 2013 he has SIGNED for NZ Warriors. How and why has the happened?? 2. Why have you announced this 4 days before the most important game if the year?? 3. What do you propose to do with the reported £1M the club has made in transfer fees this year?? Wigan Warriors.... the first 2 can be answered from todays press conference; 1. Wigan accepted a world record transfer bid from NZ Warriors and gave the club permission to talk to the player. 2. Both deals were finalised last week, so it was right that the fans were informed before Sams last home game. 3. Remains to be seen Owd Pop....... 1. This then shows the Wigan club to be very weak IMO. To have fans believe back in Nov 2011 that SAMs not going anywhere for at least 3 years and then to let him go after 20 months is taking the proverbials out of the paying fans. 2. So the club has now created the 'Sam is leaving circus' before Fridays game. When all the fans should be concentrating is on backing the side onto victory. I couldn't care less about waving good bye to a player that doesn't honour his commitments to my club. 3. Well it would be nice to know. Wigan Warriors.... The transfer bid could have come at any time and it was up to the Club whether or not to accept it. Due to the figures suggested, the offer was obviously too good to turn down. Read the link below for more details on the deal; www.wiganwarriors.com/WContent.a ... 674&type=1 Thanks, Admin Owdpop... I appreciate the replies I really do. The reasons you give for the sale leaves me extremely worried about my club and the sport in the UK. It seems any bid for our players that seem too good will now be accepted. This hardly leaves fans wanting to buy season tickets for next year does it. Why sell your prize asset when we still have a salary cap in place? It's not as if we can just go around splashing the cash is it?? The reason given by IL for the sale gave the perception that Sam was the main driver and he was desperate to leave, whilst your answer suggest otherwise. It's all rather sad for the fans of our once great club. So IL was the main driving force behind the deal not Sam as he was the first port of call. It remain to be seen what happens with all that lovely money...'" Credit to you for addressing your concerns to the club rather than simply whingeing about them online. But to be fair, they were never going to tell you their spending plans for the next few months. Anyone grumbling about that is wasting their breath. As for who's fault it was that Sam left, I've still seen or heard nothing to convince me that Sam was pushed out or marketed around or anything of that sort. The club knew he had plans to leave - else they'd never have tried to build a 'guaranteed three-year' clause into his five year contract (sadly, that's the way things are; players and their agents are clearly not trustworthy in this regard). Ultimately it wasn't enough. The offers kept coming in, getting bigger and bigger - they knew Sam wanted out. Why not consider taking one a year early? I personally think that was a mistake, but as Lenagan said, they entered a dialogue with Sam, and if he'd wanted to stay, he'd have stayed. Next job - make the best we can of a bad situation. Which we did. It was hardly a great day for the club, but that's life in this era of decline. As a game, we can't afford to hang onto our most precious goods.

Quote ="Owdpopularsider"Just Id thought Id share my correspondence with the club with all boys and girls.. Owdpop..... So IL has a few questions to answer.... 1. Tomkins signed a 5year deal in Nov 2011 that stopped him SPEAKING to ANY club for 3 years. In Sept 2013 he has SIGNED for NZ Warriors. How and why has the happened?? 2. Why have you announced this 4 days before the most important game if the year?? 3. What do you propose to do with the reported £1M the club has made in transfer fees this year?? Wigan Warriors.... the first 2 can be answered from todays press conference; 1. Wigan accepted a world record transfer bid from NZ Warriors and gave the club permission to talk to the player. 2. Both deals were finalised last week, so it was right that the fans were informed before Sams last home game. 3. Remains to be seen Owd Pop....... 1. This then shows the Wigan club to be very weak IMO. To have fans believe back in Nov 2011 that SAMs not going anywhere for at least 3 years and then to let him go after 20 months is taking the proverbials out of the paying fans. 2. So the club has now created the 'Sam is leaving circus' before Fridays game. When all the fans should be concentrating is on backing the side onto victory. I couldn't care less about waving good bye to a player that doesn't honour his commitments to my club. 3. Well it would be nice to know. Wigan Warriors.... The transfer bid could have come at any time and it was up to the Club whether or not to accept it. Due to the figures suggested, the offer was obviously too good to turn down. Read the link below for more details on the deal; www.wiganwarriors.com/WContent.a ... 674&type=1 Thanks, Admin Owdpop... I appreciate the replies I really do. The reasons you give for the sale leaves me extremely worried about my club and the sport in the UK. It seems any bid for our players that seem too good will now be accepted. This hardly leaves fans wanting to buy season tickets for next year does it. Why sell your prize asset when we still have a salary cap in place? It's not as if we can just go around splashing the cash is it?? The reason given by IL for the sale gave the perception that Sam was the main driver and he was desperate to leave, whilst your answer suggest otherwise. It's all rather sad for the fans of our once great club. So IL was the main driving force behind the deal not Sam as he was the first port of call. It remain to be seen what happens with all that lovely money...'" Credit to you for addressing your concerns to the club rather than simply whingeing about them online. But to be fair, they were never going to tell you their spending plans for the next few months. Anyone grumbling about that is wasting their breath. As for who's fault it was that Sam left, I've still seen or heard nothing to convince me that Sam was pushed out or marketed around or anything of that sort. The club knew he had plans to leave - else they'd never have tried to build a 'guaranteed three-year' clause into his five year contract (sadly, that's the way things are; players and their agents are clearly not trustworthy in this regard). Ultimately it wasn't enough. The offers kept coming in, getting bigger and bigger - they knew Sam wanted out. Why not consider taking one a year early? I personally think that was a mistake, but as Lenagan said, they entered a dialogue with Sam, and if he'd wanted to stay, he'd have stayed. Next job - make the best we can of a bad situation. Which we did. It was hardly a great day for the club, but that's life in this era of decline. As a game, we can't afford to hang onto our most precious goods.

And we will continue to be unable to do so as long as Chairmen like IL voting to keep the CC at it's ridiculously low levels....

I noticed you did this earlier - attempting to cast aspersions on IL with regard to the declining health of the game overall.

Nice try, if a tad desperate.

But of course NZ warriors play in which league ?

It is the intent of the word 'Australian' by the person or persons who drew up the contract that is the issue.

I think we all know that it is the RU and the 'Australian game' that are the people with the 'big bucks' who would/did entice Sam to wander off.

I think that is why 'Australian and RU' were worded into Sams contract.

It appears contracts aren't worth the paper they are written on.

And now the rumours are starting that Josh Charnley is also being targetted. Oh dear.

Didn't he vote to keep the CC at it's current level?

he did yes, and hes the only one who has a vote......

Mr Lenegan bragged about it by saying "Why should I pay more ?"....than the salary cap, in the Manchester Evening News.

What does all this bellyaching actually produce beyond a little more wear & tear on a few keyboards?
I really hope IL isn't paying attention to any of this, 'cause if I were him I say "sod the lot of you".
If anyone here thinks they can do better then get your wallet open & flash the cash.

WTF does it really matter who spoke to who first, when they did or any other bits of nonsense in the dozen or so pages of this thread?!

Good luck to Sam. If I were 30 years younger I'd probably be wanting to move to NZ too (I hear the sheep are very friendly). The club's in rude health, there's a bit of extra cash to spread about & we've a chairman who's got his head screwed on the right way round.
If he comes back & we get first dibs (and he accepts) then we'll have a FB who's learned a little bit more in the toughest arena of the sport.

We should be congratulating him & wishing him well, not finding some barmpot excuse to winge & whine. Or will there be more than just the North stand booing him on Friday ?

Whilst at the recent Catalans game on my way back from the ground to the hotel I happened to walk past the USAP ground and witnessed first hand the phenominal interest in Union. The crowd noise could be heard from blocks away. In my ignorance I didn't know that Perpignan had a Top 14 team. I got hold of a copy of L'Equipe (a paper devoted to Sport) on the Monday after both games and guess what - pages devoted to Union not one single paragraph devoted to our game. I mention this because unless you get out there beyond Lancs/Yorks you really don't understand that Super League is tiny in comparison with Union and also the NRL.

Players have a career to think about. They want to achieve as much as possible and earn as much as possible in a game that is one bad tackle away from retirement.

None of this is the fault of IL. The salary caps in French Union and the NRL dwarf that of Super League, even if IL agreed to putting it up by 50% or even doubling it. We still couldn't compete. The world has changed and since Union went professional it has been a long slow decline for League in this country. The only thing that keeps us afloat is that put simply, it's a better game to watch, otherwise the game would have died years ago. It is obvious that Josh will be next to go, and why would you stop him? Once you've won everything in Super League, why not further your career?

Because removing the salary cap would save the game, wouldn't it?

It's nothing to do with poor marketing, poor TV deals, under-performing clubs, stay-away fans, the comparative strength of the pound, our low national profile thanks to Sky TV, the missing international dimension, etc.

FWIW, I don't like the salary cap either, but it isn't the only problem we've got, or the worst one - and you know that perfectly well.

It directly impacts on the ability of clubs to retain the best players.

I would say that is a pretty significant effect of it.

Definitely. If it wasn't for the SC we may still have Joel Tomkins as one example. We may of been able to pay Sam Tomkins enough to keep him in SL. Even players such as Ryan Hoffman etc. Its amazing what a wage increase can do. But of course, like Mr Lenegan said, why would I want to pay my players more money?

And last time we retained all the best players, we had to sell our ground.

Sam is reportedly on £400k pa over there, the game in this country can't sustain wage levels like that. If we offered Sam the same wage, we'd have to offer pro-rata comparable sums to the rest of the squad.

It's not the SC that's the problem, it's the income for the clubs and the game as a whole that simply isn't there.

And likewise, we may not.

How many 'mays' and 'ifs' are you guys going to offer as evidence?

Much as I've lobbied for the cap to be moderated in order to reward clubs who promote youth, abolishing it won't save the British game overall - because it's already bloody skint.

Geoff, go and find a wall, and bang your head against it... Some on here just have there heads up their own ar$e$, like the sound of their our keyboards, and cannot see the wood for the trees....

Cheapest ticket £18 south stand, programs are what £3? Pints £3.20, Pies £10k.....and you want to increase the CAP? Sadly this time round, Wigan don't have a ground to sell

So we'll sell all our best players instead !

Nice soundbite, but it doesn't really mean anything.

We only have Charnley left that would really attract big money because we've sold or lost all the rest!!

Maybe Hansen to Salford? Im sure the Doctor might give us a decent transfer fee for him. Maybe an offer that we cant refuse? Who knows he may even try and buy our new marquee signing out of his contract as well if Mr Lenegan asks nicely?

IMO it's a bit narrow minded to think Sam went for cash alone.
He is one of the most talented players in SL, and like anyone with talent (no matter what their chosen profession) they will try and test/challenge themselves against the best. Unfortunately the Southern Hemisphere is the best place to play rugby.
While RL may be strapped for cash, so is everybody else. IMO getting rid of the salary cap will concentrate all of the best players into 4/5 teams, everybody else will be there to make up the numbers. Look at Scottish football it's a joke as a competition.
We need to get a better profile and more cash into the game. Thats down to the RFL and business men in the sport.
I'm a recent convert from union and RL is a far better game to watch, the crowds are more interesting, its a fun night with away games being reachable after work on a Friday and its great value for money.
Don't underestimate what a good product RL is and don't overestimate the impact of Sam leaving. We might get some other moves added to our attacking plan next year.