Post ont he Bronco's forum about it. Apparently he's listed on the SL website as a London player

Don't think it was his shoulder. I'm sure I read somewhere it's his bicep muscle in his left arm. With a little
luck it might be OK for Sunday.

[urlhttp://www.superleague.co.uk/matchday/player/10719[/url

Hampshire
Manfredi
Gelling
Sarginson
Burgess
Williams
Smith
Taylor
McLlorum
Flower
Clubb
Farrell
Burke

L Tomkins
Dudson
Crosby
Hughes/Bateman

The team need to get last Saturday out of their system IMO and whilst I wouldn't play a full team I do think we need to put a strong side out.

I'd be looking at something like-

Hampshire
Gelling
Thornley
Sarginson
Manfredi
Green
Smith
Crosby
Tomkins
Taylor
Clubb
Hughes
Farrell

Subs
Hopkins
James
Burke
Williams

Rests for Goulding, Charnley, McIlorum and Lockers who must be short of 100% and I'd pull young Burgess out of the fire for a week and give Manfredi a shot. I'd also look to rest Flower who'll be very important this year and give Bateman time to recover before playing at Cas next week. He's going to be a top class player (I noted how he dumped SBW on his backside in the 2nd half on Saturday forcing an error) but they won't rush him.

That's an exciting team overall.

Bowen seems to be getting special treatment because of his past rep and because he was our 'big signing' but surely if he's not playing well enough shouldn't be be dropped? Clubb was.

If it was just linking in the line then I would understand that he needs game time to figure out the systems but it wasn't just that.

He's catching, his positional play in defence, he's lack of willing to return the ball (always looked for his wingers) are all traits he should be doing in his sleep after being an NRL fb for over 10 years.

On the otherhand we look so much better with Hampshire as our 1, he plays like Sam, Rocky links well, returns the ball, and plays his socks off.

So who out the two deserves to play? Obviously I think Rocky.

I don't care how many years you've had in the NRL, its about whats best for the team.

So my team...

Hampshire
Charnley Daz Sarge Burgess (This is a new looking backline, especially on one side, give them game time)
Green Smith
Taylor Logan Flower
Hughes Batman
Faz
----------------------
McM Crosby Dudson Clubb


I'd play Logan for 30, McM to do 10 in the first and see what state we're in would depend on his game time in the second, for me if the games going to plan McM to play 10-15 at the start of the second then take him off and bring Logan back on.
McM could do with a 'lighter game' after coming off a hard game and an injury, Logan should be playing for his life, he needs to make a statement in the game to show he's worthy, similar for Clubb, needs to come on and play for his life.

Faz at 13, good hands, and can sure up the def on both left and right sides when they're attacking.

If Lockers is out as expected I want to see Bateman at 13, I think that is the reason for signing him and he will be our long term 13

I doubt its out training systems that are telling him not to jump for a high balls

I think hes not had a chance to settle in wigan yet at all, he arrived then went to florida, back a few weeks then off to oz

How could we not win!!!

I must have watched a different WCC to some people on here, most of you have included Matt Bowen and Gill Dudson in your team for the weekend you lot must be off your rockers. There were a host of lads who missed out on playing in what would have been the biggest game of their lives and those two put in performances nothing short of diabolical. Rocky Hampshire to play at fullback all day long for me.

Hampshire
Charnley
Gelling
Goulding
Burgess
Green
Smith
Crosby
McLlorum
Flower
Bateman
Farrell
Lockers

L Tomkins
Burke
Hughes
Taylor

Well I wasn't keen on signing Bowen simply because of his age and the knee reconstruction but I can't believe Bowen has been written off after one SL game and one WCC no doubt by some who had a go at me for suggesting it wasn't a good signing in the first place.

Give him a chance! He is here now and this has to be the fastest fall form grace I have ever seen on this message board since I have been coming on here.

I wonder when his family are coming over? That may help him to settle. As I posted on another thread, a friend rang me after Saturdays game predicting the anti Bowen tirade. He reminded me of how long it took Gene Miles to fit in and the stick he took. It's a good job t'internet wasn't around then.
Give him a couple of months before judging him.

I recall your reservations. And you were right. At the time we signed him I hadn't seen him play apart from once on TV. However when I saw him live I expressed my own reservations. At Saints he couldn't be bothered. Against Huddersfield he got wound up by Brough and nearly got himself sent off. Against the Roosters he brought no leadership to the team, which given his status we have a right to expect. He has been poor in every department except tackling. Even in his worst games Sam offered something in attack.

I'm afraid I hold my hands up here. I swallowed the hype and expected a world class player. Even when he is poor a world class player should offer something to the team. Bowen unfortunately has done nothing. It is early days of course but you only get one shot at the WCC and we blew it. Now I'm not blaming Bowen that would be stupid, but I think we expected so much better.

I hope he improves. But really, does he look like a man whose heart is in it? Compare and contrast with Ryan Hoffman and what he added from the word go. His attitude was spot on.

You often argue that you are entitled to say what you see - as you did after Andy Powell's debut. Surely people are only doing the same.

I have also thought of Gene Miles and how he went early on and that is why I won't write him off so quickly.

I think the start of our season has been very disruptive but even so I didn't think he looked a bad player v Hudds.

You don't have to go that far back, look at St Pat...

You think the two situations are the same? Bowen has proved he can do it and in theory the risk to this signing was his knees (my main reservation as I did acknowledge his skills). The risk with Powell was not only his age being against him but the fact he had never played the game and it was going to take more effort than it was worth to turn him into a good player. Given younger RU players than him took a while to get to grip with the game in the past I don't think I was being unduly unfair to him whereas I think it is a bit quick to write Bowen off.

I also thought Clubb looked far worse v Hudds than Bowen and I'd rather have us still have Hansen in that slot but again despite my bias toward Hansen it would be unfair to write Clubb off also.

If we are wanting to get rid of Bowen after those two games then there are several other players who by the same token should be leaving with him. Dudson was dire in the WCC so what about him as well?

He was played in the wrong position though under a dubious coach. Miles like Bowen was coming into a good set up and played in his rightful position. Still got the same kind of flak as Bowen.

I am hoping class is permanent and from temporary with Bowen as was the case with Miles.

I wouldn't criticise anyone who is trying. Bowen hasn't so far given any indication that he wants to be here.

As a world class player surely we can expect more from him than the likes of Clubb and Dudson and therefore the criticism is justified. I was so looking forward to him playing for us and maybe that's why he has attracted so much flack. Maybe he can't live up to the hype.

Maybe my memory is playing tricks but I really don't remember Gene Miles being so poor. I do remember an unbelievable spear tackle at Saints (not sure who the victim was). And he certainly is one of the best centres I've ever seen. Here's hoping Bowen can prove me wrong and he really does want to play for us.

It generally takes overseas players 4 to 6 weeks to bed into the team, the style of rugby in super league and to get acclimatised to the weather and lifestyle over here.

I agree he's not set the world on fire yet but surely we can cut him a bit of slack and actually give him some support, to hopefully speed up the settling in process. We all want to see great performances by our team but criticism after so few games won't help anybody.

If he's not showing any signs of improvement by May then maybe some tough decisions need to be made by the management.

Thing is it might take Bowen 4-6 weeks, but why invest the time in him when Hampshire could well be ready now? Give him a chance to prove himself v Wakey, it's the perfect match for him, if he plays well and looks better than Bowen keep him in.

Lets not lose sight of the future, Bowen was only brought over as a stop gap between Sam and Hampshire, at Bowen's age and with his injuries he was never meant to be here long term. If Hampshire is ready already then I'm sorry but Bowen needs to play second fiddle to him.

Our long term is Hampshire not Bowen, he's our prize asset, it's about developing him at his pace. I'm not in agreement with Bowen slowing down his development.

Although I think Hampshire should play on Sunday (unless Bowen looks more comfortable in training with our systems) I still think Bowen will prove to be an outstanding signing once he settles and I still think he will be in contention for the MOS at the end of the year.

I think though there is little point selecting him at the moment unless he is totally comfortable with out systems as the team is greater than any 1 player, and he clearly is not yet comfortable with our systems, whilst Hampshire is.

There is no great issue for me, it's very simple.

On should Bowen play or not I think he probably should, his stress levels should be less playing against Wakefield so allowing him to concentrate more on his team development. SW has already said he has done well in training and I don’t think he would have thrown him in in the first place if he didn’t believe he was ready. I think the best way for him is to put him in a real game and see how he goes after a few more. The guy has vast experience and if he can’t get with the plan soon then it’s time for plan B, but I think he still may come good.

If you gave me a choice of playing Bowen at home against Wakey or away to Cas I know which I'd choose! If he's low on confidence which seems to be the case, a trip to Cas playing in such alien conditions won't be a walk in the park. I doubt he'll have ever experienced playing somewhere like the Jungle and I could see that going horribly wrong.

I'd be tempted to play him at 1 with Hampshire at 6 on Sunday just to try and get him some confidence.

In my OP I suggested Bowen at 1 with Hampshire on the bench. That, I thought, would give SW a choice should he feel changes are needed during the game.
Bowen hasn't been great at all, however I do think his tackle on SBW last Saturday was telling. Another 6 points at that stage could have meant them getting 50.
The other reason for benching Ryan was that I've not been over impressed with our half backs either. Hampshire would give SW options in that regard too.
At this stage of the season I think the best place for Hampshire is the bench rather than a starting spot where he would be targeted.

My priority between the two would be Hampshire. Bowen can't stand in the way of Hampshires development. If it's right that Hampshire is ready to play then he should.
I don't like the idea of someone who's only here for a season to stand in the way of a future stars development.

I don't want another Tim Smith episode were it took him to break his arm to see Tomkins geta run of games. Even though Bowen is a much better player than Smith, the comparison is there for all to see.