So it's Wigan vs Leeds.

First vs second with only 30 or so points difference separating the two after the weekly rounds.

We've played each other 4 times with honours even so this is the decider.

I'm quietly confident that we are hitting some decent form at the right time but you can't ever bet against the proven winners in Leeds side.

Should be a cracker!

Just so we are clear. Are you still adamant that Shaun Wane should be sacked if we lose? Because you have, along with others, been pretty damning of him this season.

Yes. Why would I have changed my mind?

To put a blunt point on it just getting to finals and not winning them isn't good enough for a club like Wigan. That's been my point all season and that doesn't change now.

I'm also man enough to say that a win in the GF shuts people like me up. I hope we do it BUT if we don't it will be another season without a trophy. Since when was that good enough for Wigan?

As always and I've said this to you all season- if you are happy to accept 2nd best that's your prerogative. If you are happy to see us go out of the cup on a wimper or get heavily beat on more than one occasion that's up to you. Reaching the final is an achievement but nothing to tell your grandkids about if we don't finish the job.

There will come a time when you realise that this much talked about 'next season' or 'golden future' doesn't outweigh the here and now.

With a GF win or loss, 2nd in the league (by 20ish points difference) and early exit in the CC there only seems like McDermot who would be just above Wane and Wigan in terms of the team winning silverware.

But... that's not good enough.

What would have been OK, Hall not catching that ball? One more point in the league? Four more converted tries all year? The CC and forget about the league? Or are you expecting all three or a sacking is on the cards?

Nothing wrong with wanting perfection and I hope that you have that in your life. I just wish I had that perfect world as Wigan would win everything and be loved by all...

Competing in finals is the job in hand imo. If you get to them I believe they're a flip of the coin and you'll get a fair share of wins in them so we've ticked a box. Win or lose Wane has turned round what was a mixed season and given us that opportunity. Even if we get beat next week we can't claim that this side is any sort of big game bottlers because they'll have lost two Grand Finals on the trot. We all know what we ended up facing up to in the final last year and not a team in the land would have won (and most wouldn't have come as close to a win) playing with 12 men for 76 minutes.

The one things we can't forget about this side is how young it is either. We've got players with plentiful years left in them all over the place and some of them are gaining invaluable experience at the very young ages of 19-22. We look like a side that can go forward without any real transition phase like Leeds are going to face because we have replacements for the guys either retiring or getting close to the end (with Tomkins for Bowen and Bateman for Lockers).

The club is in excellent shape. I've said all year I'd kill for another top line prop forward but even without we'll continue to be there or thereabouts. I believe Wane has proved his doubters (of which I was one after our Catalans mauling in France) wrong and is the man to take us forward for years to come.

Smith is apparently the best coach in the league according to some...

Wigan are missing both first choice centres and have no good pack members by all accounts. I wonder how we manage to brew up.

Three points:

1- I can handle a loss. I've said before that 2010 was a season i particularly enjoyed. We played consistent rugby, had a good mixture of youth and star players and went out of the cup fighting till the last play of the game. That's a successful season for me but by no means perfect.

2- We've spent years mocking Saints for thier 5 GF defeats. Are we now saying this was in fact an achievement they should be proud of? Is it now simply ok to get to a final and not win it?

3- Do you not think that as a minimum Wigan should be getting to at least one final. SW has done that but I don't think this constitutes going above and beyond like some are making out.

There's a lot of fans out there who nail thier colours to the SW mast and talk about the future. Funnily enough when you scratch the surface and push them for how long they are willing to give him between titles they won't commit. So the question to you is - if we don't win on Saturday how much more time would you give him 12/24/48 months or the proverbial 'as long as it takes'.

For me if we don't win next week he gets another season to secure the CC or GF if neither are achieved next year it would be three years without a trophy at that point he would have to go as he is the one who tells us the squad is what he wants.

Harsh maybe but as the coach of a one of the major players in any sport that's life.

Wigan will probably start as slight favourites but as I always say to my betting friends (don't mind a bet myself but rarely on Wigan as I find it clouds my thinking) it starts 0-0.

We look fresher and as some people have posted here and on other forums our "Middles"

look to have grown 2" taller, look stronger and faster and more "up for it" than at any point in the season and its been building this way since the 8's started and the Leeds game away in particular was a big turning point for me
The club and in particular Shaun Wane deserve a lot of credit for that and by hook or by crook got the right players playing the right way at the right time.
He's had the Manfredi decision and shown faith in the form player rather than the big name which I think most people will agree with.
He's also given young Gildart a go and whether he thought it would pan out this way or not he's stuck by him so far and whatever happens next Saturday both Wane and the the player deserve vasts amount of credit for creating a situation whereby a player I wasn't sure was ready for regular SL games has forced his way in at the business end of the season and is keeping more experienced and mature players out.
In my experience I have found people who react more angrily to defeats (i tell people who seem to lose their marbles at games that just because your shouting and screaming louder than everyone else doesnt mean you care more than them) seem to be the ones who talk about never settling for 2nd best or we should win something every year and in my opinion whilst it could be described as an admirable trait by some what it doesn't take into account are the thousands of intangibles that can occur throughout the season such as injuries, off the field issues etc.
Be it luck or good management we are entering the last game of the season just like last year as the slight favourites.
Lots of things "could" happen but I wouldn't swap our position at this moment or moving forward for anyone else's so well done to everyone involved.
4th grand final in 6 years is a record to be proud of. 3rd in 4 for Wane so yes I think he must be doing something right. I'm obviously aware of the public persona of the man but whilst only having ever met him 2 or 3 times I know people who work with him almost daily and there's far more to him as a coach that goes on behind the scenes and im confident that even if not the "Super coach" that some would want ala Wayne Bennett, Michael Maguire (how's he gone on this year btw? And was a far more aggressive personality behind the scenes than many would think) im confident that for now we're in safe hands.

I would thinks it's fair (and would hope) that we all want the same thing next week.

Let's finish the job this year and leave the analysis and pontification till after the final and let's get behind the whole club this week.

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Firstly I am a SW fan however, like all of us he is human and will never get it right all of the time but then again there is no coach in the world who can either.
What you get with SW is what you see. He is honest to a degree too honest at times. He is a Wigan fan which at times can come across to opposing fans as disrepectful to their teams but all he cares about is Wigan which is fine by me. He gives youth a chance. He trusts in the young members of his squad because he believes other members of the coaching team have done their job in coaching the kids correctly through the system. He is loyal. All he wants is to coach a successful Wigan team.
For an"ape" he is a top coach. Name any team in the last 20 years or more who have seen as much change in team members than Wigan and still been successful? I questioned his selection of Gildart and Bateman as centres but quite obviously he knows far more than me. The guy knows his stuff and contrary to the "ape" jibe his rugby brain is superior to the vast majority of other SL coaches.
At times this season we have been poor and looked off the pace and I have been quite vocal in criticising some of our displays but SW has kept faith with his players and in turn it looks the players have returned that faith.
Personally I don't think any other coach in SL could have got the current team to a SL final.
That's an opinion perhaps not shared by everyone but I bet IL probably thinks the same.

He does and will make mistakes in the future we just have to hope they are few and far between and that he has a bit of luck along the way.

Be careful of what you wish for. We might get the latest "new" Aussie guru but you can bet your last dollar he will just see Wigan as a stepping stone to a bigger role back in Aus.
If IL has any sense he will be looking for SW to kick on with this very young squad for at least the next 2 years.

If you sack Wane, who do you get to replace him? You have to be realistic with recruitment of both players and coaches.

You have a coach who would walk on broken glass to coach your club, and he's been successful to boot. I'm not sure some of you appreciate how lucky you are.

Some of us do.
In four years he has reached three Grand Finals, won the Challenge Cup and League Leaders shield, most clubs would be more than happy with that.

Wane has rebuilt the side from when Maguire left. Wanes team of today only includes six players from Maguires Cup winning team of 2011 with two of those Joel Tomkins and Lee Mossop only just returning. Wigan are the youngest team in Superleague and Wane has to take a lot of credit for bringing those players in. He has also reduced the number of overseas players dramatically at the club during his tenure, surely a good thing for the game in general. Last night Leeds had five overseas players in their team and Saints had four. On Friday Wigan had one.

Wigan must be clear favourites, To see those two leeds performances in a row was unbelievable. For them to get up a third time mentally, never mind physically is a massive massive ask. Leeds have had two wars, Wigan have had two perfect tune up games, and lets not forget are in far better form than Leeds who 3 weeks ago were getting panned in france.

Spot on Charlie. Some of our fans are like the spoilt brat in a supermarket who cries if his mummy doesn't buy him any sweeties. He stamps his foot and says it's not fair. Some of them need to get some perspective on life and grow up.

He's been successful in one season of his three at the club. If we don't win anything this season that's 3/4 of his time at Wigan without winning one of the big two.



It's not arrogance to say we aren't must clubs. I was looking at the Hudds board before Thursday game and they were talking about reaching the final would be their greatest achievement to date. I sound like a broken record but reaching finals isn't enough - you have to win them.



I'm sure i'm in the minority here when i say i don't care how many foreign players are playing for the club. As long as they do the job i don't put weighting behind where they were born i don't think any less of Boston, Hanley or Bell when compared to guys like Edwards, Radders or Faz etc.

You can pad out 'success' as much as you want with stats on how many finals we've made or how we've reduced our amount of overseas players to x, y & Z. ATEOTD the only stat to measure success is trophies in the bank. Leeds win win the treble with five overseas players and we lose with just one isn't some sort of moral victory.

Spot on... Apart from a moment of madness, which was Wanes fault in the eyes of the haters, Wane could have been looking at the possibility of a third GF win on the bounce. Nobody gave Stains a chance before the game. I know they will get uppity, but, they only just managed to beat 12 men over 70 odd minutes. As Rogues has pointed out, this is such a young side, and we have players knocking on the door to get in the first team. I think myself and some other post a lot less than we did, because we just can't get our heads around how negative some posters are....

I think some sleep in their Norweb shirts, with "Simply the best" on a loop... That reminds me, must go to the barbers to get my mullet sorted...

That is one way of looking at it.Another is that Leeds are battle hardened and Wigan no being in anything like a real contest in a while could be under done.Add to that, The usual final adrenaline, The legends retiring, i personally expect Leeds to be nothing less than at least at the level of the past two weeks.I would have Wigan as very slight favourites going in but it really is very tight to call.Would be surprised if there is more than a score in it either way.

Brilliant contribution as ever. This is the one coming from the guy who quit the board when he didn't like what other people were saying!

You do realise that people have different opinions to your own right.

The only 'child' i can see is you. Can you not see the irony that when we play badly you won't let an inch of blame be put at the feet of Wane but when we are successful it's suddenly a master stroke on his part??

Where is the evenhandedness? I've already said if we win the GF then he deserves praise but if we don't there should be a frank discussion about the success of his time as head coach. I'm not alone in saying this has been an indifferent season - you yourself couldn't be have been happy with some of the performances. Notice the word performances and not results there is a difference between getting beat and not performing (Cas, Wire & Cats away - Hull in the Cup etc compared to our last min loss at Saints).

I answered your original question so can you answer mine? IF we don't win anything this season how long would you personally given Wane until he wins another trophy? Are you just indefinitely behind him regardless of anything else?

This, absolutely this.

I am sorry but that is arrogance at least to my way of thinking. As a very long time Wigan fan through good and bad times we have no right to win anything, no club does, you earn the right by hard work and skill and getting to finals Past performances are absolutely no bearing on the present time. I am sure Wane will expect Wigan to win this years GF but it will be down to what happens on the day - hopefully whatever the outcome the best team on the day will win it (but I have a bad feeling that this may not be the case this year) but I am sure even as loyal and blinkered Wiganer as Wane will not think that Wigan have a right to win. Wigan are a top club - maybe even the most well known outside the UK and to non-RL fans but that means little when it comes to winning trophies.

Many other clubs have had periods of dominance and could justifiably claim to have a right to win things just as you are claiming for Wigan and it would be just as wrong - there have been some very good or even great sides that have won nothing - sometimes being beaten by lesser sides who had exceptional games or just by bad luck. Would Wigan have one more GF win if there had kept the full team on the pitch last year - we will never know but if we had then Wigan 's record over the last few years would look much better. Expectation, desire and will to win yes ; right - no.

In this day of salary capped level playing field Super League no club will dominate and have a monopoly on winning things like Wigan did back in the 80s and 90s those days are gone - I for one want Wigan to win things, I expect them to be challengers but at present there are 3 clubs (us, Leeds and Saints) who realistically can be winners and I am sure that the fans of other two have equally high opinions of their teams, even others like Cas and Huds are getting closer. As long as Wigan are getting to finals then that is the primary objective - finals are one-off games as often decided by one piece of brilliant play by an individual or a referee decision than anything else.

Of course the past has nothing to do with future success. Also we don't have a divine right to win things but that also doesn't mean that we should be happy when we don't.

When i say 'we aren't like must other clubs' i'm not talking about our past successes. I'm talking about the proverbial 'Wigan Way' which to me is all about the notion that we do things different here. We always have the aim to be the biggest and best club and we never sell ourselves short. Just being ok with making finals is selling our club short imo.

Losses are a part of sport and we can't always win. The question is how long to do you leave it between success before you need to change things up.

Ok to answer your question. Shaun Wane can see out his contract provided we are COMPETING for honours. Winning sometimes takes luck (eg Saints last year) and you can't legislate for that. I think that he is a good coach who has a good record of success and adds a lot to the club in other ways such as our youth system that he is partly responsible for. I'm happy competing for honours.

If we had a couple of seasons like Wire have had then I'd be looking for a new coach. But losing finals isn't a sackable offence. I respect your opinion SP but I think you have dug a hole for yourself here. Get behind Waney support the team and enjoy the final.

When was the last time we had an unbeaten season at home? Season ticket holders can't moan at that. There have been some scratchy wins but as others have said the days of hammering sides every week are in the past.
Foremost I like my team to win, I also want competitive games and if our team is almost all Wigan lads that's even better.

I don't think the coach is above criticism but so far he is providing us with a team to be proud of for me that's the Wigan way

2004

We'll just have to agree to disagree on this one - for me he needs to be averaging a trophy once ever two years (the record Leeds have). If he can win on Saturday he'll have done this and i'll be happy.

Lets just enjoy the week