all warrington tries, all saints tries through Charnley, he has to trust JT to make the tackle. they never created an overlap all game, Charnley created it for them on two occasions. He is playing great, if he can sort this out we will be very hard to score tries against.

Leeds will run at them two all day long.

Stop now please nothing wrong with the jt&jc partnership

Charnley wasn't at fault for either try.

Joel Tomkins was beaten by Meli - he had to come in for him.
Second try Deacon was sucked into a dummy runner and that created an overlap.

Overlaps aren't created on the outside. It's usual in field where the problems are. I thought Josh Charnley was awesome yesterday. Made a vital incept in the first half. Didn't come in on Meli and he ended up throwing the ball into touch. He had a top game .

I don't think you can blame Charnley for the first one. It was Deacon that hesitated and didn't slide across quickly enough which created the overlap. The second Foster try was just good centre play by Meli. He was quick enough to get to Joel's outside shoulder and make the half-break, which made Charnley make a decision about helping Joel out or staying with his man. Watching it back Joel looked to have Meli covered ok but in the game it's a split-second decision. It's all part of the learning curve and I'm sure the coaches will go over things like this with Josh when they look back at the game

Thought he held his wing well yesterday. Both of Foster's tries came from a simple 3 on 2 vs JT+ JC, caused by the whole line not sliding quick enough/taking the wrong man. In fact after watching back on TV today, for Foster's 2nd I think Sam should have carried on to attempt to tackle him rather than come in and help Charnely take Meli. It's a fledgling partnership that is improving week on week.

What he said ^^^^

Sorry but if you watch the 1st try Meli starts inside Joels Left shoulder. He then very easily arcs outside Joels right shoulder creating the 2 on 1 against JC. JT was positioned perfectly to begin with but backed off, giving Meli time & space to do so. Joel was at fault for their 1st try BUT he is learning. There is a massive difference defending in the centres as opposed to defending as a S.R. Centre is a specialist position which takes some getting used to and at this particular moment in time I'm torn between bringing through/in a specialist centre and putting Joel back in the pack where I think he is more devastating (He WOULD have scored that try this time last year playing S.R).

I agree.
Not sure who we could bring in at centre. No-one of any top quality is available in Super League. Matt King was the best and we apparently showed some interest, but he is off to Australia. We may have to stick to our guns for next year and see Joel develop with a full pre-season under his belt. Experience will see the majority of these defensive frailties eradicate from his game.

Our best prospect as a replacement centre (to allow Joel to move back into the pack when Hoffman leaves) is Josh Charnley. The lad is a tremendous talent and is in incredible form on the wing, but he does have all the natural attributes to be a top centre. Pace, power, sensational balance and footwork. He excelled playing for HKR in the centres. The only way I can see him moving into the centres is if Amos Roberts can recapture his form. We'd have a pretty devastating backline if he did.

On form:

Sam Tomkins
Amos Roberts
Josh Charnley
George Carmont
Pat Richards

What an unbelievable backline that could turn out to be.

Saints did that and scored two tries.

For me it's fairly simple 1) the JT/JC partnership is fairly new (and improving at a rate of knots) & 2) Meli had a great game at centre yesterday.

I was impressed by the fact that JT held position well whereas he's been caught out more in the past. JC played well and covered his wing; their respective attacking play was superb (JT's 'pass' aside).

Keep learning at this rate boys and I'll be happy for you two to start there next season.

Regardless of the reasons for ours and Saints tries the point still stands, teams are looking at your right side and thinking "i fancy a few points on that wing, personally i do think Charnley is your weak link in defence.

I'm sure you guys have the game with us on DVD or recorded on TV etc, look at Kings try 2nd half, he actually runs over Charnely, he doesn't try to go round him because he thinks why risk going in to touch when the guy won't tackle me.

Great going forward i'll concede.

How he got man of the match nominations for what equated to a shimy that led to a try and a try i'll never know, he did bugger all else

I thought he had a very good first half. Interception 10 yards out, few good runs to relieve pressure and dealt with everything Foster and Meli threw at him.

I hope teams keep testing josh .Because they obversely under estimate him . Teams keep getting there fingers burnt with his full lengthers and half breaks



So keep it coming

Sorry Ste but I think you're being a little unfair there pal; Matt King's a great player and can steamroller most in his path. Josh Charnley's a kid who's learning fast; breaks and tries aside, he makes some great hard yards and takes pressure off the forwards. He's getting better with exposure; sure, we'll haemorrhage more tries on that wing as people will play percentages and go for them but watching them regularly, with replays, I can see that side getting stronger and stronger.

Watching the Wigan team week in week out it becomes obvious that he's no worse than the other defenders on the right hand side. The way Wigan defend means that the winger is always likely to be left with some very difficult decision to make because he'll be left dealing with an overlap quite often.

Wigan's weak link in defence is Deacon without a doubt mainly because his decision making isn't great. He also has to be moving forward in order to put enough power in his tackles to bring a man down meaning he's more likely to rush at a player and a quick pass will usually create an overlap.

Yes, Matt King ran right over Charnley but he's done the same thing to many players in his career. He's run through better wingers than any that England have to call upon. King just happens to be a fantastic player.

Charnley didn't really do much wrong for Foster's first try. They created a bit of space and Joel Tomkins allowed Meli to run on his outside. Joel does this quite often because he likes to grab the shirt collar and try to swing the man into touch. He's done this successfully a few times but it does mean that the player is likely to get on his outside. It would have appeared to Charnley as if Joel had been beaten so he had to go for Meli, who was clever enough to slip the pass out wide.

For Foster's second try it was Sam Tomkins who was at fault along with Deacon. Deacon misread it slightly and created an overlap. Joel took his man as did Charnley. The ball managed to come to Foster out wide but Sam Tomkins went for Meli too instead of moving to cover the wing.

Any team could have conceded those tries though. Split second decision making in an important game is something that you tend to get right more as you get older and more experienced.

From that distance King would have gone over/through any winger in the league.

Charnley and Tomkins are developing week on week. Not long ago they were being caught out by short kicks behind them, the first try was down to brilliant centre play by Meli; sometimes you have to accept that you were out done by better play. Any try can be blamed on poor defence; but fans tend to regard the tries their team scores as fantastic and the try their teams let in as poor defence.

Remember that JC is actually a centre and JT is a second row main point i think.

It is very difficult for JT in the centre particular in defence.
He isnt the quickest thinker and what ever he decides in that split second will bring about either a try scored or try saved.

I think it is being slightly overlooked the fact that Deacon is also there and being the smallest player plus an important part of our attack makes him a taret no matter what. Wigan did the same to Johnny Lomax, he took a heavy knock because JT tried to run straight over him.

We are all looking for excuses to why the tries are being scored that way but I bet many other SL clubs have similar problems when facing our left side attack.
Francis Meli and Jamie Foster probably scored most of Saints tries so it cant be JT and JC being poor.

The end outcome is normally from good work inside off dummy runners who hold up defenders because if it was that simple Charnley would move up fast and be on the opposition winger if not the centre but a long cut out pass will bring about more questions.

If difficult to say trust your inside man because if you look at Meli first try he arc's round from Joels left shoulder to his right shoulder meaning Charnely is attracted in to close the gap between him and Joel, if Meli steps then you would expect Deacon or HH to be there to help JT with the tackle.

I'd say Charnley don't trust your inside man as he hasn't a clue on how to defend as a centre. Just a pity and a shame that Gleeson doesn't play for us anymore, then no one would be critisising Charnleys defence.

Really? Because Goulding was faced with pretty similar situations when defending outside Gleeson last season and he got plenty of unjust criticism for it.

I think your all insane, your looking at the best defensive team in uk history and your looking to find fault , to me it looked that the whole team didnt slide quick enough and it was just quick play that caught them out , your never going to get to a stage where you dont concede any tries and you still have the best defence, enjoy it .

even as someone who had to painfuly endue the 90's and Wigans domination , this side is a pleasure to watch and to be honest i quite enjoy watching them these days on how well they deconstruct other teams and just break them down doing the basics very well, I certainly think this team would beat any other english team from any era

I think he had a blinder! His work rate ws top class as ever. His scoots from acting half back helped keep the forwards fresh and his defence was good enough for me. As a few have said, the whole slide was slow which left him with a tough decision to make.
I think he showed he is not a winger when he broke through though. An out and out winger would have been able to do an in and out and beat Wello on the outside. He had enough time, space and pace to do it be just ran a straight line which made it easy for Wello. Don't get me wrong Wello did well to stop him but I'd love to have seen him go in and out.
guaranteed starter for me next season.

What do you mean 'he showed he's not a winger'? If he's been a winger all his career and he's excelling on the wing right now, and has basically nailed down a starting spot on the wing then he's a winger!

so whats the leeds left side pairing?...Ablett and Hall?...a 2nd rower in the centre??
i think leeds will attack out other side...they have more pace down that flank

I concede that you're generally a good poster but in this instance you're way off the mark. He made 2 game busting runs in what was a very tight match, something that no other player from either side was able to manage and that includes players of the quality of Roby, Richards, Tomkins etc. That's why he got nominations for top 3 MOM. That's before you get to his intercept, great work bringing the ball out and generally good defence. One instance where he was (perhaps) caught out of position does not a bad match make. He was excellent yesterday, as he has been for much of the season. His 19 (?) tries many, if not most, made by great work from himself are testimony to that!

As for 'weak link' in defence, you couldn't be more wrong. Deacon is the weak link. Even his most ardent admirers for what he does for this team (and I include myself in that) wouldn't argue with that. Charnley is unfortunate in that he defends on the same right hand side as Deacs and alongside a centre with little experience in that position. If you wish to use the King example as evidence that he is a weak defender then the same can be said for practically every player King has played opposite throughout his career. In fact, the same can be levelled back at King himself as I've seen him run over and past as if he wasn't there on occassion. Doesn't make him a bad defender. Every player has that at times during their career...more so when they are first coming into the game.