Moving on from my thread about Noble's win record in regular SL games, here's what our win % is since Superleague begin:

SL1 86%
SL2 64%
SL3 91%
SL4 70%
SL5 82%
SL6 79%
SL7 68%
SL8 68%
SL9 61%(Farrell left after this season)
SL10 50%
SL11 43% (Noble 61%)
SL12 56%
SL13 48%
SL14 30% so far

It's pretty much been a steady decline since around 2000 looking at those stats and after a bit of a boost in his first season and a half, Noble hasn't been able to address it. So is it really Noble or are we just a club that's been badly run from top to bottom and we're reaping what's been previously sown?

Could be either of those, to be honest. But a start would be the appointment of a head-coach who can actually coach modern rugby league.

Having said all that I still think Noble we be here until at least till the end of this season.

There's no point getting rid unless there's someone better to replace him with, and I doubt that could be arranged before the end of the season.

Trent Barrett covered over a lot of problems with the club.

The fact is we have a coach and a chairman who cannot identify the problems with the squad.

Last season it was evident that we needed a prop forward. Instead we bring in Amos Roberts a year earlier and leave ourselves short upfront.

Again we can all see that we lack power and "grunt" in the front row and instead the club identify we need a game breaker and sign Martin Gleeson for a six figure sum. Although I would agree we do need a player of his caliber IT IS NOT THE PRIORITY. Our priority should have been to bring in a prop forward to bolster our front row. Otherwise we can have the best backs in the world but unless our forwards are laying down a platform for them to work from they can't do anything as was evident against Catalans and for the whole of this season.

Ouch, that's depressing. That's precisely the sort of thing that needs presented at a Fans Forum as a counterpoint to the "things are getting better" type comments and happy clapping.

How would I interpret those win ratios? Go back to SL7 and I've had said the only way from the top is down and this is a short term blip. Now I'd say there's an inherent rot at the club and this needs identified and addressed.

I also think that there have been major problems in the coaching staff/regime for too many years. Other clubs have appointed better in the backroom than Wigan and left us behind, it is no co-incidence that other teams look fitter, sharper and stronger than Wigan and better drilled in the basics of rugby league (such things as support play and passing ability).

You have hit the nail on the head. The Gleeson signing was not a priority and the only way you can say it was a good signing is if IL and the fans allow Noble to bring in the rest of the players he needs for next season and finish the job.

Why? If he can't get the results you may as well appoint someone like Wane as caretaker because they won't be able to do any worse and might even improve matters. Then at least a new coach for 2010 would not have a completely demoralised squad to deal with.

No change in coach and results could also see crowd figures slide and prove very costly making it harder to amass the funds to pay a top coach.

I find it sad that Noble inherited a demoralised dressing room and in reality has failed to fix it. It is as plain as day the 2007 and 2008 seasons were not as bad as this one is turning out to be because of Barrett.

Dave

I can't be doing with this kind of thing.

The person most responsible for the current poorly prepared state of the team is the head-coach.

The chairman certainly has some responsibility, but he's not in charge of team matters in training or on match days.

And what responsibility do 'the fans' have in all this? - apart from having supported this team through thick and through thin, at a time when they didn't really deserve it. If Noble and his players make any further catastrophic errors, it won't be the fault of the fans.

You can use stats to prove anything 85% of people know this, however i think this is one you cannot argue with.

I dont understand the argument of its not nobbys team (for the first two years)

Nathan Brown doesnt seem to find it too hard, and time will tell if Mick Potter takes stains downwards.

I do think a lot of problems where created under the previous regime, but the glaring mistakes made in recruitment, can only be laid at Nobles and IL's door.

And to say we are lost because we dont have Trent is also a cop out. When Cats lost Stacey Jones, other players STOOD UP and they had their best season!

And this, to me, is the inherent rot to which I referred in my post above. I know the club's hired more staff of late but the concern I have is that they'll be Noble's appointments or appointments made with Noble's blessing. IF Noble's given the Big E at some stage soon then will Wigan be replacing these coaches shortly?

What errors are these that you keep going on about? The responsibility the fans have is to not throw the baby out with the bath water before the job is completed (team rebuilding). I would say the biggest mistake made by the club was to allow Trent Barrett to leave a year early as they should of seen the huge hole it would leave behind. Its ok saying why didnt we bring in a replacement but maybe there just wasnt one along with any props that would improve us.

Give over. They have had more than enough time.

The entire recruitment looks haphazard. We have signed Phelps, Pryce, Roberts and Gleeson when we needed a prop. It is not as if Gleeson was the only back we signed when we needed a prop. There was obviously enough cash around to sign one given we signed the first three never mind Gleeson.

It is a mistake (to put it mildly) to have gone down this route and I do not accept it is all IL's doing. Noble must carry the can and therefore the fact we are light in the front row but try and play as if we are not is down to him.

But recruitment aside Noble needs to go because he has been exposed as a poor coach.

Dave

It is not a cop out at all. You cannot lose a Trent Barrett or any other world class player and expect to improve without replacing him. Barrett simply papered over the cracks in the Wigan team and won us games we should of lost. Catalans have a huge pack (we dont) and had a decent replacement for Jones in whatever his name is who plays 7 now.

our problem is we set our teams standards too high. From what i can see, our team is just NOT good enough

I mean, we are leagues behind leeds and Saints in both perfomance on the pitch and our consistency over the season. Its all well and good pulling off a magical victory at Leeds, but following it on with a dodgey home win to a "lesser side" is not championship winning-material. At the end of the day we sign average and exspensive players, who generally under-perform and fail to meet expectations, never mind exceed them, with the odd exception eg) barrett. Players such as Mathers, pryce, roberts, smith, fielden, riddell are all fine examples of players who have done nothing but waste vital space in our salary cap and destory the hopes of many talented young budding super league stars in our academy. At the moment we are putting too much pressure on the shoulders of tomkins and ainscough. Ok they have amazing potential; but to expect them to lead the team to grand final glory is simply ridiculous and further highlights the lack of effort our more experienced players (eg Riddell) are putting into playing and leading the team.

I like how you got a Noble-ism in. There was no stand offs or props available that would be better than what we have? I dont believe that for 1 second. We knew Trent was going for a while before the end of last season so they had plenty time to put the feelers out and weve needed another prop for 18 months now. How long do they want?

Tell me which halfback we should of signed then Dave to replace Barrett. While your at it which props to strengthen the front row. The truth is we missed out on Todd Carney and Greg Bird but it didnt matter anyway as we couldnt of signed them in the long run. The players that have been signed are fine if you look at the bigger picture of building the team/squad.

Your opinion of Noble being a poor coach is just that-your opinion.

We could not sign one though we tried in Bird. We could not sign him because we had used the quota up on Phelps and Roberts. The rebuilding you keep banging on about is a shambolic effort.

In any case the current results are down to the current team under performing. While we all recognise we need a prop it won't make that much of a difference if we continue to see things like one man RL, seemingly unfit players (Riddell is a joke) and a defence that caves in far too easily.

The team is playing very poorly and your idea that this will all be solved by recruitment for next year is too simplistic. Recruit who you like but unless the team they join bucks up and is better coached we will be writing the same thing next year.

Dave

It is one I can back up with evidence. You on the other hand cannot back up your opinion he is a Wigan good coach with any evidence at all.

Dave

The fact is there wasnt any other than Greg Bird and Todd carney which we tried to sign and failed for whatever reason and even had we got them they wouldnt of been able to play for us. We have to be prepared to crack a few eggs to make an omlette

As this now seems to be going down the Noble route again. I'm been having a think of who has been signed that it could be claimed Noble was part of the decision to make the signing. Off the top of my head I can think of:

Fielden
Dobson
McAvoy
Mathers
Carmont
Pryce
Roberts
Coley
Riddell
Bailey
Gleeson
Smith
Phelps
Withers

That's 14 players - have I missed any? Haven't included Barrett and Lulu because they were both recruited prior to Noble joining us. Obviously some were very short term for 2006 and others have been and gone, but that's a lot of players we've changed over three seasons.

I like how you say Wigan coach. Does the fact that he won the lot at his previous club not set the alarm bells ringing that the team at his disposal at Wigan is simply not up to the task rather than Noble suddenly becoming a poor coach?

Salford signed Smith (Jeremy), hes 1 off the top of my head who was obviously available. If we would of put the feelers out sooner im sure more would of been possible to approach. Theres a bunch of players at Wigan at the moment who have got to be the worst bit of recruitment in the history of our club, either for ability or the fact we just signed players who didnt offer any balance to our team.

I think there's a bit of fantasising going on here.

First of all, I can't believe you ask that question about 'what errors are these'. Do we see Noble and the team making anything but errors at present? I certainly don't. We've played well on two occasions this season so far - against Bradford, who we can now see are actually very poor, and against St Helens, who still managed to beat us.

As for the bit about Trent. You can't on one hand dismiss people's desire to replace him like for like, and then, on the other, airily state that we should have kept him. They guy was gone. He didn't want to stay; he reckoned he'd retire if we held him to his contract - and much of the reason for that, if certain players are to be believed, was Brian Noble, who Trent simply didn't rate.

As others have said, at present we're a bad side. We're not that bad on paper - we've got a number of good players. But this team is not the sum of its parts (by ANY stretch of the imagination), and the responsibility for that must stop with the coach.